Arrow Global ... reared their ugly head again!

Evening,

I am a returning user although I was not aware that the site had moved ... so very glad I found you again!

Last time I used the site I was having problems with Arrow Global and you provided valuable advice, support and a way forward. I used the 3 letters process which appeared to tie Debt Managers (Services) Ltd (who were acting on behalf of Arrow Global) up in knots! I replied to all letters that I received from them after obtaining the relevant information from here. I eventually received a final letter from Debt Managers (Services) Ltd last May 2016 informing me that they were no longer dealing with the account and had closed their file and returned it to their client - Arrow Global.

I thought (and prayed) that would be the end of it .... wrong!

Today I got home to find a letter from Capquest advising that from 02/11/2017 they would be managing the account on behalf of Arrow Global Management Limited - who are they? Are they Arrow Global renamed? To date I have not received a 'Change of Agency Notification' from Arrow Global! Capqest are the 6th Debt Recovery company to come into play!

As I told Debt Managers (Services) Ltd via letter on 05/04/2016 - I checked my credit file and noted that there is no outstanding debt as alleged or otherwise. It is my belief that you have made an error. I do not accept or acknowledge this debt in any form.

Is the following correct:

(1) After 6 years under the Limitations Act 1980 (5 years in Scotland) a debt is no longer enforceable against you in a Court of Law. Debt collectors can still chase you for the debt but they can't enforce it. After 6 years all debts naturally fall off your credit report.

(2) Agreements made before 6 April 2007 are unenforceable if it didn't contain a notice of your right to cancel.

(3) 'Statue barred' they cannot enforce or chase for a debt if no payments have been made in the last 6 years.

Should I write to Capquest and tell them that the letters that were sent to Debt Managers (Services) Limited still stand and as far as I am concerned the matter is closed due to points 1-3 above?

Your help and advice would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks.

LindyLou1962

Is the following correct:

(1) After 6 years under the Limitations Act 1980 (5 years in Scotland) a debt is no longer enforceable against you in a Court of Law. Debt collectors can still chase you for the debt but they can't enforce it. After 6 years all debts naturally fall off your credit report.

The date you defaulted (which is what shows on your credit file) and the date of the 'Cause of Action' under Section 5 of the Limitations Act 1980 are two entirely different dates. The cause of action is actually the date the Original Creditor issued the formal default notice, which can be many months after you initially defaulted.


(2) Agreements made before 6 April 2007 are unenforceable if it didn't contain a notice of your right to cancel.

Any agreement is technically unenforceable if it doesn't contain the right prescribed terms.


(3) 'Statue barred' they cannot enforce or chase for a debt if no payments have been made in the last 6 years.

Again, the cause of action is not taken from the last payment date but from the issue of the formal default notice. So you need to find out when the Default Notice was issued to see whether the debt is actually statute barred.

Hi Tiggy,

Thank you for your prompt response it was very much appreciated.

Are you able to confirm if any of the following information below helps to clarify any of the points 1-3 above please?

As at 06/12/2012

- Account was closed
- The account has been satisfied/The payment status has been reported as in default
- The account has been satisfactorily closed
- Account status - Default
- Reported Until - May 2017/July 2017
- Default Date - 5 May 2011
- Default Satisfied - 1 July 2011

Are you able to advise what would be the most sensible next step - should I reply to the letter from Capquest or do I just ignore it?

If I write to them I want to ensure that what I write to them is accurate so again would appreciated a bit of advice.

Thank you in advance for your help ...

LindyLou1962

LindyLou1962 wrote:Hi Tiggy,

Thank you for your prompt response it was very much appreciated.

Are you able to confirm if any of the following information below helps to clarify any of the points 1-3 above please?

I don't have good news, but you should not think it as bad news.
It's like this, you ran up a debt that you are either running away from or you are struggling to confront.
Simply make an offer of a payment that you can easily afford each month. Do not worry about what they want each month from you as that is irreverent. Don't worry about your offer being well short of what they are wanting from you. It really is irreverent.
Ensure you send the offer recorded delivery and keep a duplicate of the letter you send with proof of delivery.
They then have two options.
1. To accept your offer, then good news, just bloody well keep to it.
2. To reject your offer and threaten court action. Should they take this path simply write them stating that you are making an offer citing your previous letter of an offer.
Should they be silly enough to go to court. Stay calm. After the judge has done his serious judgey bit. State "this is nonsense your honour", you should receive silence at this point. The ball is now in your court, pardon the pun. You have two options here.
1. Say to the Judge that you wish this case dismissed, when asked why, simply state there is no objection to this case being nonsense. CASE DISMISSED.
2. Produce your duplicate offer letter to the Judge and state that claimant can accept the offer or reject the offer, should the claimant reject the offer then there is nothing owed as you have fulfilled you obligation to offer to settle. CASE DISMISSED.

But don't worry, something as trivial as this should never end in court as long as you are prepared to honour your obligations.

Whatever you do and this is very important, ignore the above advice and wait for a different response off one of the resident experts.
From the look of it the default date was 5th May 2011 so a good 6 years have passed and me personally would ignore them as well.

Jinxer wrote:wait for a different response off one of the resident experts.

Oh really. I am looking forward to one of the resident "experts" debunking my post.
Let's see the reasoning behind debunking my comment as it is tried and tested. If fulfills legal obligation. Maybe you are not familiar with the fact that obligations should be offered to be settled. Maybe you buy stuff and think the people in the factories that make your stuff should not get paid for their efforts. It is they who will lose. Not the corporations.

Sorry I don't agree with your logic for this case and I know nothing, but I will debunk your post myself with two words, STATUTE BARRED and I'm the resident idiot with nothing to loose, what are you.

Jinxer wrote:Sorry I don't agree with your logic for this case and I know nothing, but I will debunk your post myself with two words, STATUTE BARRED and I'm the resident idiot with nothing to loose, what are you.

You clearly do not know much. If a debt is Statute Barred. That does does not mean that the debt is not owed. It will stay on your credit report for probably the rest of your life. Meaning you have a bad credit reference forever unless you do something to honour the debt. Debt collection agencies will every now and then every few years still chase you for the debt, keeping it alive. Statute Barred is not the holly grail you clearly believe it to be sunbeam. Should you want a permanent bad credit report, sure show yourself up as being dishonorable with the permanent consequences that entails. Get an education. Smallfry.

Like I said I'm the resident idiot and get by really well without an education, thanks for your concerns though.
I would be very surprised if a statute barred debt could stay on your credit file, but will bow down to your superior knowledge, even though I think your wrong.
I still advise to take no notice of your post to offer any sort of payment on a debt that can't be enforced, who cares if it's owed. I couldn't care less about honour food in your belly is more important than that.

Jinxer wrote:I would be very surprised if a statute barred debt could stay on your credit file

Ask anyone here with long term debts. They will confirm what I have said.
I am not a bad guy. I have offered a reasonable way out for people. Nothing more. You should care about debt as it is the delivery person, the factory worker, etc. who works all the hours under the sun for a small wage that pays the price of your shirking of responsibility. The corporations wont take the lose, the worker will get the pay cut.

I'm not saying your a bad guy, I just disagreed with your advice to offer payment and I also disagree that a statute barred debt would stay on your credit file for life.
No need to question my morals either and I'll hazard a guess LindyLou1962 didn't come here hoping to get advice to offer payments on an alleged debt that has nil to zero chance of being enforced. And whilst on the subject of morals and honour I see you concerned about the factory workers having to pick up the leftovers of unpaid debt, you should bin your computer or phone and trainers cause theirs a really good chance they were made by 8 year old kids tied to a chair.

Jinxer wrote:I'll hazard a guess LindyLou1962 didn't come here hoping to get advice to offer payments on an alleged debt that has nil to zero chance of being enforced.

Yes, you are hazarding a guess. I believe the poster is looking for a way out and to start living a life without their nerves being on end. I have suggested an option.
I can only reiterate that a statute barred debt, if worth enough, will stay on your record. This is not open for debate, it is a fact. You can disagree and stick your fingers in your ears if you wish, it still remains a fact, I am sure people here with long term debts will confirm that for you.
You say you disagree with my "advice", yet you offer no reasoned argument to my "suggestion". only "I don't like what you are saying", well tough! it is what it is, and it is the truth.

Ok Ok Ok here's what experian have to say about statute barred.

Is my default Statute Barred?
Although a default will be removed from your report after 6 years the lender may still pursue you for the debt, unless the debt is statute barred.

A statute barred debt is a debt which is seen as unenforceable as the creditor has not chased it in the period allowed.

If you have not made payment or signed acknowledgment of a debt in writing for 6 years in England and Wales and 5 years in Scotland then it could be statute barred.
Source

Notice how it says the default is removed after 6 years. Why would you offer payment and risk resetting the statute barred date. I have no interest in proving you right or wrong, I'm only interested that LadyLou1962 gets the advice she needs, which after reading all the debate will decide themselves what's best for them.
I'll hazard another guess, that you will be the only one on this thread at the end of the day that advises to offer payment, but I might be wrong we will wait and see.
I would like to ask you a question though, have you done a Law Degree ? You don't have to answer that if you don't want to.

Firstly I have not done a law degree. I have however been through the courts numerous times over the years. That is why I can confirm the original suggestion I gave to the poster is correct. It is not theory.
Statute barred does not mean the default will be removed from your credit report. It means the obligation need not be paid. It is only removed if no efforts have been made to reclaim the debt within six years.
That is why I said in my first post on this thread that a debt collector will continue to chase you every year or so, to keep the debt alive. If the debt is valuable enough they will keep chasing and you will permanently have the debt on your credit report.
I hope that clarifies the situation. It is easy to believe nonsense when it appears to be the easy way out.
This to me appears to be the position that the poster is in. The debt is being kept alive and so will stay on his/her record.

If you have tested your theory and been through Court like you say, offered payment for a debt and got the case dismissed because the creditor wouldn't accept it, well I take my hat off to you.
I still think it's bad advice though.
Who would care if a debt collector chases you but can't do nothing. You will be saying to pay your tv licence next just because they knock your door and say you have to.
And just to add you didn't clarify the situation I still think debt will fall off your credit report and don't take your word for it that it don't.

This is what the FCA says about a Statute Barred debt:

CONC 7.15.8
A firm must not continue to demand payment from a customer after the customer has stated that he will not be paying the debt because it is statute barred.

Any offer of repayment will reset the statute barred date, as under Section 24 of the Limitations Act 1980 you've acknowledged the debt.  As to whether this then resets the 6 years on your credit file, not sure about that but it's distinctly possible, so effectively you've shot yourself in the foot.

As for you saying you've had a case dismissed for making an offer to pay, that surprises me as that would mean there would be no order to pay.  A Judge would normally adjourn to allow for an out of Court settlement to be agreed.  This is known as a Tomlin Order, the case isn't then dismissed it's stayed (halted) and if you don't stick to the terms of the order they can restart the proceedings from the point of the stay and get a CCJ.  

If you've had one dismissed in the way you say can you post up a copy of the order you received dismissing the case as I'd be interested to see it.

Lindylou, from your post it's difficult to say when the formal default notice was issued, it can take them over 6 months to issue one. The only way to be truly sure it to contact the original creditor and ask.

Hi LindyLou 1962,

Do not acknowledge this alleged debt, You previously did the 3 letters ,Where you offered to settle any obligation you may have had upon proof of claim.

Did they provide all of what you required ? No because they could not.Only offer a payment plan if you want to be stuck  with this alleged debt.

I would start the 3 new letters with this lot.

https://goodf.forumotion.com/t1163-new-alternative-letters-for-dca-s-acting-as-agents

hi lindylou 1962

I dont think the original creditor will tell you anything except to say a default notice was sent,but you can ask

we say it is statute barred after 6 years after the default notice or last payment , when we say last payment we mean if you have made any payment after the default notice , this could be to a DCA, or any offer of payment by letter or by phone can start the 6 years again  , (but the DCA will have to prove you made a offer of payment) that you acknowledged the debt.

I would do what daveiron said , start with the 3 new letters again,

but if it is statute barred and you get a claim form from a court still fill in the claim form within the 14 days and put on it statute barred , but make sure it is statute barred.  they can win by default , the DCA,s know 90% of people just dont turn up for court, (aways go)  DCA,s will try and trick you to make  payment and start the 6 years again,

also if it is close to being statute barred  and you make a offer of £1 at this point in time they will accept this just to start the 6 years again , (one more trick of the DCA)
just use the new 3 letters and the bill them at the right time each time they contact you,

but if you do get a letter from a DCA and you know 100 % statute barred , you can just throw away the letter in the bin , what can they do,  


DCA,S ARE JUST PEOPLE IN A OFFICE THEY ARE NOT LAW ENFORCEMENT

Hi Pete,

Thanks ...

Looks like last payment was made 22/10/2010 ... no payment offer made since then ... not acknowledgement of debt since then either ...

Will not be making a payment offer and will no be acknowledging the debt ...

Thanks for your last liner - suddenly feel a lot better!

LL

Hi Dave,

No they did not provide all that was asked for ... what they did send took them 3 months to send!

I have not and will not acknowledge the debt ...

Thanks ...

LL

Hi lindylou1962


have a good weekend

Jinzer and Quirinus thank you for your comments ...

Hi Tiggy,

I have just come across the following that was provided by previous DCA and seemed to have been overlooked! Senior moment!

Original Agreement with: Arrow Global Management Limited
Date of Original Agreement: 22/01/2007
Date of Transfer to Arrow Global: 10/05/2013

The original agreement was not with Arrow Global Limited!

Looks like last payment was made 22/10/2010 ... no payment made or offer made since then ... no acknowledgement of debt since then ...

LL

LindyLou1962 wrote:Date of Transfer to Arrow Global: 10/05/2013

I don't wish to burst your bubble. But if the debt was transfered to Arrow Global at the date above, I find it unlikely that they did not write to you at that time. You probably just do not recall it. As when a debt is transfered from one collector to another they automatically send you a letter within a day or two.
I find it hard to believe that they did not write to you immediately. It is, I believe being kept alive as I originally pointed out.

LindyLou1962 wrote:Jinzer and Quirinus thank you for your comments ...

I apologize for derailing your thread, but I think from the rest of the comment's you will get the right advice, just ignore mine and Quirinus posts and listen to the others and you won't go far wrong.
Good luck and be very honourable by buying yourself a new pair of shoes with any money you may save not having to pay.