Byway Travelling

As many regular visitors to the site already know, I do a lot of off road travelling which is a form of off roading often called green laning and it disturbs me when I see so many confrontations between users who have every right to be there and some groups assume they have every right to be there and nobody else does, in fact it makes my blood boil when I see these hypocrites.

There are several classifications of UK roads which have now been rationalised into a much simpler system and these are public footpaths, bridleways, and BOATS which are byways open to ALL traffic and these are the routes we use as we drive 4X4’s which have the fewest routes open to us out of all the user groups, while walkers have access to all BOATS as well as the numerous dedicated footpaths open to just them. Councils have something called “the definitive map” which is a list of all routes within the county or parish, depending upon the council, and this lists and classifies every route within their area of operations and most are available online, and these maps are often also the basis for mapping data used for specific maps such as the OS maps which are commonly used by off roaders of all types.
Councils use a body or company called “the surveying authority” to monitor these BOATS and they control them by using something called a TRO or traffic regulation order in which they can restrict the access to a BOAT and generally this is where they stop a specific type of vehicle or vehicles/users from using a lane for a genuine reason such as BOATS being ripped up during a wet winter where a lane is easily damaged due to soft or boggy ground. Basically they maintain the BOAT by restricting vehicles which damage them and use a TRO for a fixed period of time to let the lane heal itself naturally and after this period it is opened again unless another TRO is applied to the lane and it is marked on the definitive map as closed to certain vehicles. In some cases they are malicious closures without foundation and we always challenge them if they are malicious, and we have been very successful in taking the councils to court and having maliciously closed lanes reopened and had many obstructions such as steel barriers or large boulders removed where they have been placed to block a lane.

So, who uses these lanes? With a BOAT anyone can use them as many have historical significance going back centuries or even millennia where people have travelled them, so walkers, horse riders, farmers, land owners, cyclists and mountain bikers, motor cyclists, quad riders, and even 4X4 users have the right to travel them, so why so much contention?

In reality many users assume they are the only ones with a right of use of these lanes and they have the exclusive rights to use them, so why are they so selfish and want exclusive rights to use something everyone has a lawful right to use? Well, who knows but a lot of them have specific agendas and the worst of the lot are the Ramblers Association who want the right to go where they like, even on your back garden if they feel like it and it’s all on their website. Why do I have such an issue with them? Actually I don’t and a more poignant question should be why do they have such an issue with me and other lawful users? Hmmmm. Can I drive my 4X4 all over their gardens and tear them up?

They didn’t have an issue with 4X4’s when two of their members slipped down a rock scree and we used two of our winch equipped 4X4’s not only to lift them out of the 70’ rock scree they had slid down, or the doctor who was also a member of our convoy who gave them life saving medical treatment on site. They didn’t even have a problem with us loading them into one of our vehicles and summoning a helicopter to lift them to hospital as no ambulance could get within 3 miles of them, or the fact we cleared a safe landing spot a couple of miles away from their accident as this was the nearest spot a helicopter could land safely after we had checked it, or the fact a couple of us sent up flares when we heard the helicopter approaching, and that I knew how to correctly signal a helicopter in to land. Fortunately the helicopter crew appreciated our efforts and even wrote us a nice thank you letter.

So why do so many people assume they are the only ones with a right to use a lane, and more importantly, why do so many of them tell lies about the use of a lane and why do so many of them lie about the status of a lane if it isn’t simply to try to win an argument, and yes I have heard them all over the years, and here are a few.

What are you doing here with your noisy, smelly 4X4’s?

What the f*ck has it got to do with you, do you go and stop vehicles on the main road and ask them what they are doing on there.

It’s a footpath and only for walkers?

Not so, it’s a byway and not subject to a TRO so everyone has the same rights to use it, try doing some basic research and find out its status and if any TRO is currently in force.

This is private land?

No it’s not, the land either side of the byway is, or may be private land and not the byway itself.

These altercations are not limited solely to walkers and dog walkers as in a some cases it is the horse riders who think they have the sole rights to use a lane along with walkers, and motorcycles, quads, and 4X4’s have no right to be there even though many are clearly marked as byways on signs at each end of the byway.

This is a bridleway?

No it isn’t, it’s a BOAT.

No motor vehicles are allowed up here only non motorised vehicles?

Really, it’s classified as a BOAT and there is no TRO in force which means anyone can use it.

Our horses are worth £50K and are valuable?

So what, (if I am in my expedition vehicle) is that all, this vehicle alone is assessed with an insurance value of close to £200K, and if you are so concerned about the value of your horses then why are you riding them on a byway, if you were that concerned by their value then ride them around in an enclosed field where they can do no damage or have any damage done to them.

This is interesting as we catch so many horses on camera where we encounter them on a byway and they are not under the control of the rider/s and are so skittish that even though we have pulled over and turned our engines off, they still cannot control their horses. These types are probably the worst offenders of the lot as they assume they can take a horse which isn’t free of problems with traffic on a lane where they are likely to encounter traffic, and then blame the traffic for being there when the real issue is with them not breaking and training their horses in traffic.

Both of these groups have footpaths which are only open to walkers and they have well over 100,000 miles of dedicated footpaths on which walkers have exclusive access to, then we have bridleways which have over 50,000 miles of bridleways which are there solely for horses and walkers, so already walkers have over 150,000 miles of footpaths they can walk which are free of motor vehicles and even cyclists. This raises the question of why do these walkers who vehemently oppose motor vehicles and mountain bikers even walk on a byway when they have so many miles of public footpaths solely dedicated to walkers alone.

On the flip side of the coin there are the majority of decent people walking and riding horses who appreciate the fact that we do pull over for them when space permits and let them pass, or the horse riders who appreciate the fact that we pull over and let them pass and the fact we don’t start our engines until they are well past us. Similarly, we get the walkers and horse riders who step onto any grass, or put their horses onto the grass and let us pass them, and we exchange a cheery smile, a nod, or even a wave as we pass them or a simple thank you if our windows are wound down.

There are other agendas in play and one memorable one was a road running to a house at the very end of it and at the end it forked and ran straight onto two byways, and there were suddenly altercations between the house owner and various motorised vehicle users who were there perfectly legitimately, so why were there altercations. We were passed video footage from a variety of off road groups and individuals who used these byways and they all had a common theme, he simply didn’t want anyone using them and he made so many excuses and some were so absurd, it beggared belief. Common ones were:

We don’t want the noise and pollution from vehicles.
We live here for the peace and quiet.
We are concerned for the safety of our grandchildren running out onto the road and being hit by motorbikes and 4X4’s.
These people are causing so many problems for us, but never stated what the problems were.
There were many more.

Now let’s put this into perspective, if he wanted so much peace and quiet I suggest he moves to the top of a hill in the wilds of Scotland, and as for his grandchildren! How about taking responsibility for them and securing your property correctly so they cannot simply run out into a road, many millions of parents over decades have done this and simply accepted responsibility for their offspring.

Answers came from another off roader who had a relative who worked in the property game and he claimed that if both byways were permanently closed this property would be valued at £500,000 - £700,000 more than its current value, so no financial self interest there then. Our contact then did a little digging and found that three local farmers also used the byways to access a number of fields they owned, and a wood along the side of both tracks had an access from their wood onto both of the byways, and he spoke to all of them and they were unanimous that they wanted the byways to remain open, and none of them had seen any trouble, or encountered problems with green laning. In point of fact, they were all happy with the lanes being used and enjoyed seeing people using them as 4X4 vehicle usage kept the byways clear and free of growth to a sufficient width for them to get agricultural vehicles down to their fields and saved them a lot of work clearing the lanes.
It later transpired that this guy was senior within the local council and had tried everything to get both byways closed since he moved into the property and were thwarted by the farmers and wood owner working with various local off road groups.

Some people are simply vicious and have no limits and go to some extraordinary lengths to block byways and some are plain dangerous to the point where they can kill legitimate users.

Felled trees are a common one, any tree can fall during bad or particularly windy weather and we expect that, but when they fall they either split and have huge splintered trunks or rot and these are easily spotted as genuine, but when you find a tree with a face cut, a notch cut, and a back cut and the chippings are still there it has been cut deliberately with a chainsaw to block a byway. No problem; as we all carry winches on our vehicles and saws inside them and some of us take chainsaws and we simply cut them up and winch the pieces off the byway.

In 2010 we encountered a new tactic and this was for people to take mini diggers along byways at night and dig out large holes, these were usually dug where a section of byway is usually flooded to a normal depth of a few inches, they would dig them out to several feet deep so any 4X4 entering them would have their bonnets and air intakes underwater which would hydraulic their engine and trash it. For a 4X4 it would destroy a vehicle, but for motor bikes and quad riders this could cause them serious or fatal injuries.

Wire across a byway between two posts is a common one and this is to block a byway to prevent people entering a section which is claimed to be privately owned, no byway is privately owned unless the UK population are a private company, and this is particularly dangerous to motorcycle riders and quad riders as they can be garrotted by them. In all cases that we encounter one of our group reports it to the po-lice and in the rare cases that they do respond we are usually met with a lot of hot air and waffle when they try to make excuses as to why a dangerous obstruction has been put in place and why they won’t act and have it removed.
One popular excuse from the po-lice training manual of B/S is that the landowner and local authority must have reached an agreement to allow them to close off the byway, total B/S as nobody can close a byway other than with a TRO and we can show that none are in force, this is then followed usually with it’s a civil matter. No it isn’t as obstruction of the highway is a CRIMINAL OFFENCE and not a civil matter.

Many people are using tactics such as putting nails through long pieces of wood and placing them across byways which is a danger to walkers, animals, riders of horses, motorcycles, and quads and the po-lice actually acted upon these incidents, and there are many other tactics being used.

In 2010 a number of councils commissioned a report into wear on public rights of way in their area and they were undertaken by a variety of companies, what was interesting was the similarities in their findings as in all cases they found the highest deterioration was actually from walkers and hikers due to their large numbers. Secondly they found that horses caused the second most amount of damage due to their high weight to small feet loadings, and the shoes they wore. Thirdly they found that mountain bikers caused the third highest amount of damage and right at the bottom of the list was 4X4’s which caused the least amount of damage, they cross referenced this data with the costs of maintaining the various routes and their own findings based solely on financial data confirmed the various reports findings.

These reports were published online and then suddenly disappeared, the real question is why? Could it be because it showed the group causing the most damage was criticising and attempting to vilify the group which caused the least amount of damage? The ramblers cannot have that can they?

Many areas have wardens operating on them in 4X4’s and these are often a godsend as even though they are council employees, they are also keen off roaders and get the opportunity to do green laning as a part of their job without the costs of running and maintaining a vehicle. In all cases I have seen, they are decent people out to look after the lanes and not to issue tickets for profit, unlike their brethren working on tarmacked roads and as fellow off roaders they understand the problems and often go over the top to help off roaders on their days out green laning. We often stay out overnight and pitch a camp at the side of a byway if space permits with sufficient greenery or flat surfaces and do they care? No, they often just stop to say hello and even take our rubbish bags away for us to save us carrying them in our vehicles, they often stop and have a cup of tea or coffee with us or have their sandwiches if they have them, or we give them a bacon butty if we are cooking. Most of them are members of local off roading clubs and they know the lanes and they inform us of local conditions, traffic reports if it is a busy period such as a holiday weekend which increases traffic massively, and even plan our routes around the busiest areas, they inform us about local wildlife, where to spot it, and at what times are the best for spotting such wildlife.

Green laning is a legitimate way to get into the country and to take people into the countryside who cannot get their themselves due to any number of conditions such as, but not confined to, old age or infirmity, disability, and any number of things. It allows you to travel at your speed and not be dictated to by other traffic who wants to travel at the maximum speed limit, it is very relaxing driving and when your average speed along a lane is much less than that of a narrowboat it is slow; you can prepare with some basic kit and have meals where you choose to stop. You can take a simple flask for drinks, you can take tea bags or coffee and a 12 volt kettle along with milk and sugar if you use it and brew your own drinks, you can make sandwiches and take them with you if you like. Prudent buying bay see you buy a cooler box in which you can put food and drinks to keep them cool, maybe a cheap gas cooker and you can take a wok or frying pan and ingredients to do a stir fry or simply a bacon butty, and even a couple of folding chairs while they are on offer.

Leave a lane in the condition in which you found it, take a rubbish bag for your rubbish and take it home, and treat anyone you meet on a byway with the same respect you would be expected to be treated with, and once you have been you will want to go again.

Ramblers have done alot in the uk to keep rights of way open over many years. I was a rambler from the age of about 6 to 13 with my dear old grandad .
They are individuals assassin . i cant believe your prejudice .

I just think that he is showing off his expensive car kit!

And...I have been seeing this sort of thing on you tube of late, posted mainly by bikers, and have concluded that it is an issue because one does not see a council worker unless they need fixing! They are left to rot or 'vanish ' due to lack of real use!

It should be remembered that lots of these lanes WERE just access tracks for locals a short while back and within a single lifetime some folk think that they have lost THEIR roads.

I'm on your side here.

I think that if they were properly maintained there would be less conflict.

And here's me wishing the council would go away...meh!

No prejudice Lopsum, just the basic facts, many years ago the ramblers were just that, ramblers, and the great majority of them just wanted to roam in the country and were free to do so, what has happened is that they formed an association and it has become politicised and taken over by a tiny minority who are inciting the majority and trying to indoctrinate them into causing conflict.
When you see such people as John Prescott, the same Prescott who was deputy PM of the Labour party and the same man who couldn't walk 100 yards then you begin to look, when you look you see them giving honoury memberships to many senior politicians and influencial figures it demonstrates a clear agenda of gaining political influence through honourary memberships.

let me ask you a question Lopsum, if you were a rambler would you feel the need to join an organisation or would you simply ramble for your benefit.

Would you join an association which is so politically motivated and then pay for the priveledge, or are you quite capable of finding your own lanes yourself and save yourself from a politically motivated organisation and their membership fees.
Interestingly, they have been losing a lot of core members because they don't want an organisation trying to influence them politically or otherwise.

If you encountered a 4X4 on a byway would you adopt a common sense approach or go all out to enter a conflict.

Some interesting points Tom, in recent years we have seen a massive increase in motorcyclists taking advantage of cheap and durable cameras and many more are wearing them for just this purpose, as for seeing them, I must have a look then as I tend to stick to people I know posting from 4X4's.

Many of these lanes were NOT just access tracks, many date back to Roman times which is nearly 2000 years ago and were main highways of their day, many tracks evolved naturally as people moved from walking to using beasts such as oxen, various cattle, and carts, and then through to horses and carts which widened single lane paths into early roads.
If you have the time it is interesting to research some of the history of the lanes as some are fascinating and go right back to "our rights to travel" and show how these rights came about and evolved over time.

i wasnt being 100% serious . you triggered me.
some do it for the social aspect though, without having to make a route or have any real friends that all enjoy 7mile hikes on a weekend.
if everyone did it there would be all kinds of environmental trouble, and horseriding,dog walking anything

Yes, I appreciate that, but I think you may have missed an underlying point which is why has the ramblers association turned into such a politically motivated beast and why are they trying to railroad members into following their lead, to me its another endictment of how far they have gone to try to control and influence people.

Well Tom that was interesting, managed to look at some of the bike videos and it was a real eye opener.

assassin wrote:A


They didn’t have an issue with 4X4’s when two of their members slipped down a rock scree and we used two of our winch equipped 4X4’s not only to lift them out of the 70’ rock scree they had slid down, or the doctor who was also a member of our convoy who gave them life saving medical treatment on site. They didn’t even have a problem with us loading them into one of our vehicles and summoning a helicopter to lift them to hospital as no ambulance could get within 3 miles of them, or the fact we cleared a safe landing spot a couple of miles away from their accident as this was the nearest spot a helicopter could land safely after we had checked it, or the fact a couple of us sent up flares when we heard the helicopter approaching, and that I knew how to correctly signal a helicopter in to land. Fortunately the helicopter crew appreciated our efforts and even wrote us a nice thank you letter.  

Exactly the same thing happened to us.

Something here in the same vein!

Watch it for the info at the end!

https://youtu.be/b77XR5PIKBA

There is a bit about armed trespass. Now, if one can take a copper to court for acting outside his jurisdiction, then it stands to reason that IF they DID act beyond their duties, then the trespassed while armed with a taser!

A taser IS a weapon!

Thoughts?

Actually Tom a taser is classed as a firearm, and CS spray is also classed as a Class 5 firearm also, so you are indeed correct as most po-lice carry CS spray of some kind as part of their kit, good find.

Here is the problem, we have the ramblers who want access to every bit of anyone's land and they dont give a damn about anyone else and their rights and they are politicising such groups and have done for many years to give themselves political influence to get their voices heard and this filters down to councils.

Next we have the landowners and many are farmers whose income is very sporadic as farming is, in the main very intensive, and if a group of ramblers destroys a field of crops by just wandering all over it then it could literally be game over for the farmer and the farming business goes bust. This has huge implications that many people don't see and don't want to see, if the farm is a food producer we lose that quantity of home produced food and have to import it, if they produce livestock we lose that meat and/or foodstuffs made from that animal, and of course we have the blame culture if they roam on private land and are injured by an animal and his/her insurers take a hit.

For me it is one group wanting more rights than another group, so why should they be given more rights than any other user group because they have politicians in their pockets and they use them to their advantage, what about the rights of a landowner to make a living from their land and who are these groups to deny a farmer his living. Herein lies the problem, they are plain selfish and want only what they want and to hell with everyone and their rights.

Here is a you tube that some might be interested in!

https://youtu.be/6rtD5F5TKgk

On their green lanes? what the hell gives them the right to claim land as "theirs" when it is open to everyone.

The road is dangerous with loose stones caused by off roaders, really, walkers cause more damage to green lanes that ever 4X4's do and its a proven fact, so how about going to cut the growth back or contacting the Highways Authority who are responsible for maintenence. So according to them the walkers and weather do not contribute to damage.

Great Longston, yes, know it well and the morons who live there, look up the house prices and this tells its own story, more concerned with protecting their property prices above anything else.

Hi viz jackets and trying to stop vehicles on a lane, to my mind they have become part of the hi viz brigade who think their jackets give them some form of authority when it doesn't.

Two clear criminal offences here:
1) Causing an obstruction to the highway.
2) Causing a danger to a motor vehicle.

Why weren't they prosecuted for these and other offences??????????????????

Here we have a clear case of a small minority trying to dictate to the majority and in this case the majority are acting lawfully and the minority have been clearly shown to be breaking the law.