Re: PRA Advice

by s_wan28 Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:20 pm

Will do on receiving a reply.

As for the notice of assignment point, yes I have a letter from the original lender in which they talk extensively about PRA Group. It was dated Oct 2019.

Looking at PRA's first letter to me, that has the exact same date.

by waylander62 Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:28 pm

if the letter from PRA ( which i am sure will be telling you that they are now the proud new owners of your debt ) is telling you that they now own your debt and you should now contact them and make all payments from now on to them.

then please take a look at the very bottom and give me the information

i) their FCA registration number

ii) their company registration number

if you are unsure then please send them to me in a private message if you like.

by s_wan28 Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:36 pm

Sure, it's

FCA - 718645
Co reg - 04267803

Can I ask how this helps my case?

by waylander62 Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:38 pm

it may not but it is always worth checking these things

by s_wan28 Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:42 pm

I see.

Did that info tie in with what you were expecting?

It's definitely PRA who is trying to scam me.

by waylander62 Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:50 pm

i wasn't sure but it unfortunately doesn't help you as i hoped it might.

so carry on as you were and lets see what they come back with. And the original creditor also

oh i also meant to ask when you started this account ( credit card was it ? )

by s_wan28 Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:02 pm

Oh well.

Yes, credit card with Barclaycard. I don't know when I started this account, many years ago. But I guess I'll know once they answer my SAR, which is being posted tomorrow with the PRA stuff.

by waylander62 Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:07 pm

could be helpful

there should be a date on the 'copy' of the agreement they sent you.

by s_wan28 Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:18 pm

Just revisited it. That credit agreement doesn't have a date on it at all.

Reading the cover letter, which is from Barclaycard, (I assume PRA reached out to them, and they forwarded this document onto PRA to send onto me) it states this is a "reconstituted copy of your credit agreement together with a copy of the terms of your agreement..."

The document itself has "restricted - internal" printed at the bottom of most of the pages, sometimes even twice.

I assume it's some generic crap that they cut paste my name and address into on the first paragraph.

by waylander62 Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:04 am

no date !!

can you try and remember ? the year will do

by s_wan28 Mon Dec 21, 2020 6:26 am

No date indeedy.

I'm not sure, I remember having a Barclaycard as my first CC at 18. Not sure if I closed that account, reopened a new one, I don't know only that it's many many years old.

by waylander62 Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:10 am

ok we will wait for the SAR results but could be vital to your case.

by s_wan28 Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:45 am

waylander62 wrote:ok we will wait for the SAR results but could be vital to your case.

by s_wan28 Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:15 pm

Hi

I just wanted to update what is happening in my situation.

Quick recap, PRA sent a "Letter Before Claim."

I followed the advice to complete their form disputing the debt, along with the two letters

a) A formal demand for you to supply a true copy of the Consumer Credit Agreement plus associated Terms and Conditions in relation to the alleged debt, along with the £1 statutory fee (also enclosed).
b) A formal demand requiring you to provide additional evidence in relation to the alleged debt.

I received a reply from PRA returning the £1 money order, along with a letter saying they don't charge for that request, and they'll be in touch.

It also included a proforma letter titled "requested information about your original credit agreement?" which says they should provide one, but if they can't they will send a reconstituted copy which doesn't have to be the one I signed.

I also received my SAR request from Barclaycard, it shows some copy statements, some letters regarding non-payment, data such as behaviour scores, but crucially no original credit agreement of any sort.

Can I have your opinions please?

by s_wan28 Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:20 pm

waylander62 wrote:no date !!

can you try and remember ? the year will do

I can't find that date in the SAR papers, it seems like the oldest info they have goes back to 2017, I definitely had an account with them before then

by waylander62 Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:07 am

sounds like they dont have a copy of the original agreement, so you will likely get a reconstituted agreement from PRA

so barclaycard can provide nothing before 2017 ? that seems very strange can you not recall at all in what year you took out this card ?

by s_wan28 Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:50 am

Yes, I believe they don't have the original credit agreement, and the SAR from Barclaycard seems to confirm the same.

In my dealings with them a year ago in sending the original 3 letters, they provided me with a reconstituted one.

As mentioned above in this thread, it is a generic document with no signature or date, and my name and address has been cut and pasted at the top.

It says in the proforma "requested information about your original credit agreement?" document that came with the returned £1 money order, this is treated the same as the original document and if they can provide it, it constitutes an "enforceable" account.

My question is, is that bullshit? Surely a reconstituted credit agreement cannot stand up in court, therefore, it would be foolish to take this further.

by flyingfish Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:20 am

s_wan28 wrote:My question is, is that bullshit? Surely a reconstituted credit agreement cannot stand up in court, therefore, it would be foolish to take this further.

It's difficult to give a straight yes or no. There's a general belief that for pre-2007 agreements a true copy needs to be produced, but for post 2007 a reconstituted copy can be accepted. However I've seen references to quite recent cases where specific reconstituted agreements were not accepted. I guess it comes down to persuading the court, on balance of probabilities, that the agreement was not correctly reconstituted, ie the source material flawed.

by waylander62 Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:50 am

agree with flying fish, reconstituted agreements are accepted by the courts unless you can convince the court otherwise

pre 2007 would or could be a big help but you dont know when this agreement was taken out.

i am still amazed that barclaycard have nothing before 2017 !!? i just did a SAR myself and they have records going back to 2001 !!

you did send the SAR to barclaycard didn't you ? and not PRA ?

by flyingfish Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:45 am

Does the reconstituted agreement not give the date it was entered into? Surely that would be required, but even if that's not strictly true then if they can't produce anything prior to 2017 I would have thought that would cast doubt on the authenticity of the reconstituted agreement.

by s_wan28 Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:59 am

Cheers for your input!

They already sent me a reconstituted agreement, over a year ago when I did the original 3 letter process.

The fact that their latest reply states they are digging up the original agreement, if not, then a reconstituted agreement, tells me they don't have a tight handle on my case.

Yes, the SAR request was sent to Barclaycard, and not PRA. Lots of missing info, for example the statements don't go back to past May 2017. Maybe they are holding out on me?

Looking at the reconstituted agreement they sent me over a year ago, it's a generic document with my name and current address at the top of the 1st page. There is no date.

What's more, if it was the original agreement, I'm certain it would have a different address there.

by s_wan28 Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:01 am

Their latest reply states they have 12 working days to come up with the original agreement or a reconstituted copy, otherwise, it's unenforceable.

I shall wait.

Thanks for your input everyone Very Happy

by waylander62 Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:20 am

i would be tempted to write to barclaycard:

in respect of my recent SAR for account number xxxxxxxx, can you confirm that you hold no information in respect of this account which dates back prior to 2017.

PRA stand to gain a very big profit from this account which is why they are pursuing it as they are, they are preparing to go to court with very little evidence, because this is above 10k it may well be allocated to the fast track where the costs can be quite high several thousands of pounds in fact.

tread warily and keep your wits about you as they will be relying on a dodgy Judge who hates debtors and litigants in person ( and there are plenty of those about )

i have sent you a private message.

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