PRA Advice

by s_wan28 Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:32 am

Howdy All

I'm looking for some opinions on my next move.

Last year, Nov 2019, I did the 3 letters procedure in response to PRA's request for payment.

I stopped hearing from then. That was until about a month ago.

They sent a letter saying the usual, which I replied to in the normal way, stating that they failed to provide the evidence I requested. Plus they are continuing to pursue after estoppel.

However, they replied back within a month saying I should give reasons why I dispute the sum owed to them, along with a "reply form" consisting of

Section 1: Do you owe the debt?
Section 2: How will you pay?
Section 3: Do you intend to get, or are already getting, debt advice?

My question is, do I continue replying with I haven't received documents that support their claim/I have no account with them, or should I just ignore?

The reason why I say just ignore is that it's getting tiring.

What do you think?

Cheers,

by **daveiron** Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:07 am

Hi, Dont fill in any form from them. And under no circumstancies admit any debt.

I would reply in response to their " I should give reasons why I dispute the sum
owed" by asking them to give their reasons why they think you do.

Rebut their presumption that you are their customer (look up the definition)
and that you have an account with them.
In the mean time if you have not done it already send a SAR to the original
creditor.
Always respond to their letters . I always put " I rebut and refute your claim
that I owe a debt to your corporation.

by s_wan28 Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:39 am

Howdy Daveiron

The reason for me posting was bc I'm tired of saying the same sh*t to them.

But I will continue replying per your advice.

As for your reply, I like it, turn the tables on them...

One question though, please explain the purpose of sending a SAR to the original lender. As far as I know, a SAR asks for information.

What info am I asking for, and how does that help my case?

Thanks for your input, I appreciate it cheers

by **daveiron** Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:00 am

Hi ,The reason for the SAR is to find out exactly what info the OC has ,and
therefor what info PRA may have. For example in my case all the OC had in regards
to the agreement was a copy of 2 parts of the agreement ,part of the top &
part of the bottom ,a section in the middle is missing. & thats all they have
and is by their own addmission uninforcable.
It may be that part of yours is unreadable or some other defect.
What they send is all thats available.
In your SAR ask for 'Any and all information they hold'

Agreed it may be a pain having to respond every month or so ,but as i know
mine is uninforceable I personally enjoy it.
https://goodf.forumotion.com/t3813-i-dont-think-pra-like-me-anymore

by s_wan28 Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:12 am

I see, okay I'll get the SAR sent off.

Thanks once more Daveiron, you do great work Very Happy

by Mrblue2015 Sun Dec 20, 2020 1:49 pm

s_wan28 wrote:Howdy All

I'm looking for some opinions on my next move.

Last year, Nov 2019, I did the 3 letters procedure in response to PRA's request for payment.

I stopped hearing from then. That was until about a month ago.

They sent a letter saying the usual, which I replied to in the normal way, stating that they failed to provide the evidence I requested. Plus they are continuing to pursue after estoppel.

However, they replied back within a month saying I should give reasons why I dispute the sum owed to them, along with a "reply form" consisting of

Section 1: Do you owe the debt?
Section 2: How will you pay?
Section 3: Do you intend to get, or are already getting, debt advice?

My question is, do I continue replying with I haven't received documents that support their claim/I have no account with them, or should I just ignore?

The reason why I say just ignore is that it's getting tiring.

What do you think?

Cheers,

Just to be 100% sure, did their letter say ‘Letter of Claim’ OR ‘Letter Before Action’ at the top?

Ive dealt with PRA before, were easy to brush off. They had to admit the (alleged) debt was legally unenforceable Wink

by s_wan28 Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:04 pm

Hi MrBlue

It states...

"This is a Letter Before Claim as required by the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct & Protocols contained in the Civil Procedure Rules."

What's the difference?

by Mrblue2015 Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:37 pm

In which case you must respond to it in a very specific way...

Watch out for my next lengthy post!

by s_wan28 Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:52 pm

This sounds ominous.

Alrighty, I await your next post

by Mrblue2015 Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:53 pm

First, can you confirm how much the alleged debt is for? To retain your anonymity, please simply round UP to the nearest £1,000.

by s_wan28 Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:04 pm

It's for £12k

by Mrblue2015 Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:50 pm

OK, well that won't be so easy to fight against I'm afraid but we can give it a go!

Before I lay out the instructions, I will also say it would be good to include the wording Daveiron also provided with the following...

HERE FOLLOWS HOW TO RESPOND TO A LETTER OF CLAIM.

You must reply within 14 days from the date shown in the Letter of Claim.

You must follow ALL 3 steps:

1. Filling out the form:
From the form, tick the box that days you DISPUTE the debt. You should also have a box that says allows you to enter a reason for disputing the debt. In this box say the following in bold:

As per the Practice Direction Pre-Action Conduct and Protocols, please find enclosed TWO letters:
a) A formal demand for you to supply a true copy of the Consumer Credit Agreement plus associated Terms and Conditions in relation to the alleged debt, along with the £1 statutory fee (also enclosed).
b) A formal demand requiring you to provide additional evidence in relation to the alleged debt.

(DO NOT fill in any income and expenditure form if they supply one, feel free to rip that up, wipe your backside with it or whatever! Your finances are none of their business!)

2. Letters a) and b) - the 'enclosed letters'
For letter a) write a headed etc letter and state the following in bold:

This is an official demand for a true copy of the Consumer Credit Agreement plus the associated terms and conditions in relation to the alleged debt, including the statutory £1 fee (please find enclosed), to be provided to me within SEVEN days of the post marked date of this letter.

(Also enclose a postal order for £1 and on that postal order, ensure you write in bold: payment for Consumer Credit Agreement request only.)

For Letter b) write a headed etc letter and state the following in bold:
(This would be a good place to include the wording from Daveiron!)

This an official demand requiring you to supply me with true, legible copies of ALL of the following documents in order for your client to evidence their claim to the alleged debt and to be provided to me within FORTY days of the post marked date of this letter: -

a) Any Default Notice served
b) Any Notice of Assignment served
c) Any Statements of account showing how exactly the alleged sums have become due
d) The Termination Notice
e) The Sale Agreement / Deed of Assignment evidencing your clients title to bring a claim

OR for Letter b) you can instead use the template found here: https://goodf.forumotion.com/t41-the-3-letters-process

- scroll down to the section 'If things do go to court', starting from where the template says SENT BY RECORDED DELIVERY.

3. Photocopy all of the above (i.e. the form, your enclosed letters AND the postal order) for your own records PRIOR to sending an A4 envelope containing all of the original documents and postal order via Royal Mail Signed For delivery (better still, using their tracked service) ensuring the envelope gets to the solicitor BEFORE the 14 day deadline. I recommend you send off your envelope with one week to go at the very latest (don't risk leaving it too late!)

If you do not do the above, they will likely issue a claim and then it gets harder (but not impossible) to fight...

by Mrblue2015 Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:59 pm

daveiron wrote: I would reply in response to their " I should give reasons why I dispute the sum
owed" by asking them to give their reasons why they think you do.

I like all of the wording Daveiron suggested but I love this! THEY are the b*stards who are coming after you and claiming that you owe an alleged debt, always remember that. So let THEM give a reason why THEY think you owe them a debt... Otherwise you can end up falling into a trap of making their lives easier... Wink

by s_wan28 Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:05 pm

What a ball ache.

Filling in the form means I must sign it as well. I'm cautious of doing that. But I'll take your instruction on the matter.

In part 2 of your reply, you mention headed letter, is this simply a letter with my name and address at the top, i.e I don't need any kind of special stationary?

by Mrblue2015 Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:33 pm

Yes, normal headed letter as you’ve described

by s_wan28 Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:38 pm

Mrblue2015 wrote:Yes, normal headed letter as you’ve described

Cheers MrBlue for your help.

Both you and Daveiron are making a difference with your advice.

Cool

by waylander62 Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:49 pm

just one thing i would like to ask

it is very unusual for any of the debt purchasers to send out a letter before action? it is almost always their Solicitor of choice who sends out a letter before claim ?

can you confirm that this letter before action was sent to you by PRA ?

by s_wan28 Sun Dec 20, 2020 7:02 pm

waylander62 wrote:just one thing i would like to ask

it is very unusual for any of the debt purchasers to send out a letter before action? it is almost always their Solicitor of choice who sends out a letter before claim ?

can you confirm that this letter before action was sent to you by PRA ?

Howdy Waylander

Yes, this letter was received from PRA, and not some solicitor.

What do you infer by this?

by waylander62 Sun Dec 20, 2020 7:06 pm

highly irregular thats all ?

just trying to get a few facts together:

have they provided you with ANY documentation at all for this debt ?

do you have a notice of assignment ?

by s_wan28 Sun Dec 20, 2020 7:18 pm

waylander62 wrote:highly irregular thats all ?

just trying to get a few facts together:

have they provided you with ANY documentation at all for this debt ?

do you have a notice of assignment ?

What they sent was:

- credit card agreement regulated by consumer credit act 1974. It has my name and address in the intro. But it is not the original agreement and doesn't show my signature.

- some copy statements, so not the full accounting

No other documents, only letters.

As for a notice of assignment, I'm not sure, can this be given by way of letter?

They stated that they purchased from the original party in a letter, but they have not provided any documentation of that deal

by waylander62 Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:37 pm

so they have sent you a copy of 'an agreement' and some statements, they may well believe this is enough to take it to court.

you said you hadn't heard anything from them since last november up until a month ago, was it a month ago when they sent you these documents ? i would assume a letter accompanied these documents ?

now they have sent a letter before claim so are preparing to take you to court, the letter should give you a timescale to reply which is usually 1 month.

the letter that states they purchased the debt would be entitled notice of assignment, the company that bought the debt will be the same as that which is threatening to take you to court is this correct ?

you must respond to the letter before claim as previously suggested you need to:

i) send back the forms required ( there is very little you need to send back ) just stating you need more information

ii) send an official CCA request for a copy of the agreement

iii) send a further letter requesting documents that you are entitled to see, you could also head this letter

a request made under CPR 31

once you have done this send a SAR to the original creditor and seek out any paperwork that you hold for this account yourself.

all of the above is of the utmost importance now

by s_wan28 Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:52 pm

waylander62 wrote:so they have sent you a copy of 'an agreement' and some statements, they may well believe this is enough to take it to court.

you said you hadn't heard anything from them since last november up until a month ago, was it a month ago when they sent you these documents ? i would assume a letter accompanied these documents ?

now they have sent a letter before claim so are preparing to take you to court, the letter should give you a timescale to reply which is usually 1 month.

the letter that states they purchased the debt would be entitled notice of assignment, the company that bought the debt will be the same as that which is threatening to take you to court is this correct ?

you must respond to the letter before claim as previously suggested you need to:

i) send back the forms required ( there is very little you need to send back ) just stating you need more information

ii) send an official CCA request for a copy of the agreement

iii) send a further letter requesting documents that you are entitled to see, you could also head this letter

a request made under CPR 31

once you have done this send a SAR to the original creditor and seek out any paperwork that you hold for this account yourself.

all of the above is of the utmost importance now

Yes they sent an agreement and some statements last year, to which I replied saying the documents were not what I requested.

I didn't hear from them until early Nov 2020 when they informed me that no agreement is in place.

I replied saying refer to my previous letters asking for xyz.

Then they sent the "Letter Before Claim" with accompanying reply form about 2 weeks ago.

Yes, it's PRA Group (UK) Limited who purchased my xxx account, and it is them who sent the "Letter Before Claim".

Ok I'll add the "a request made under CPR 31" part to letter b.

Cheers Smile

by Mrblue2015 Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:29 pm

Usually it’s called a ‘Letter of Claim’ but yours isn’t, which could also add weight to Waylander’s view of highly irregular behaviour (a Letter of Claim’ would normally be issued by a solicitor i.e. an in-house one or an independent one, but not issued by a debt purchaser).

In the meantime I would go with Waylander’s far superior advice given the alleged debt is over £10K

by s_wan28 Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:35 pm

Mrblue2015 wrote:Usually it’s called a ‘Letter of Claim’ but yours isn’t, which could also add weight to Waylander’s view of highly irregular behaviour (a Letter of Claim’ could normally be issued by a solicitor, in-house or an independent one, but not a debt purchaser).

In the meantime I would go with Waylander’s far superior advice given the alleged debt is over £10K

I've added that extra CPR 31 part. Everything is ready to post tomorrow.

In the meantime, thanks everyone for your input cheers

by waylander62 Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:03 pm

good get all of those things sent off and wait for a response,

please inform of us as soon as you receive a reply.

In addition for preparation down the line, once all has been done and sent, do you have a copy of the notice of assignment ?
this should be from the original creditor stating they have assigned/sold your debt ? this is usually accompanied with a letter from the debt purchaser telling you that they are now the new 'owners' of your debt.

do you have these letters ?

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