20 MPH limit and the Law

Hi,

A friend of mine, who is an experienced driver ( a lorry driver by profession), was driving his own car in his local town and turned into a street in which he said he saw no signs saying 20 MPH.....anyway, the long and the short of it is that a few days later, he received a letter saying he had been flashed by camera doing 27 MPH in a 20 MPH zone.

He had never seen a 20 MPH sign before in that road and he is sure he did not see it on that day.... the street did not have a school --and he could see no reason why the street should have had a 20 MPH limit.

Is this legal, as the low limit is usually 30 MPH on the roads.

He is unsure what to do at the moment.

Many thanks

Go back to the area and take photographs, if there are no signs then you will have the evidence, if the signs are obscured by foliage or something else it is invalid.

assassin wrote:Go back to the area and take photographs, if there are no signs then you will have the evidence, if the signs are obscured by foliage or something else it is invalid.

Thanks assassin.

epsom wrote:Is this legal, as the low limit is usually 30 MPH on the roads.

true I was also under the impression there was NO enforcement because of the inaccuracy of the speedo at 20 mph?

In some speedo-s at 20 you may be doing as much as 23-25.

It is possible "rules" have changed, they always do what they want for themselves!

Which organsied crime gang sent him the ticket, council or police?

Speedo's have to have a 10% tolerance, some further info below but just sidetracking the push for all 30 zones to be dropped to 20mph has nothing to do with safety but the fact it is a ridiculously low driving speed (in the vast majority of areas) & criminal gangs know people will not heed to it so more speed cameras will go up so the criminals can extort more money.

Under Road Traffic Act (Construction & use) , states speedometers are to be manufactured to within 10%, this means that an extra 10% speed is allowed i.e. if doing 20mph then 22mph, 30mph then 33mph allowed, 40mph then 44mph, 50mph, 55mph allowed & so on. (although the 20 zones may not have been in use when the act was created - check this.

Speeding fine/camera help
http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=35650

Speed Ticket Info
http://www.speed-trap.co.uk/Accused_Home/Rules_useage/The_Law.htm

Speed ticket help:
http://www.speed-trap.co.uk/Accused_Home/Rules_useage/The_Law.htm

Courts - Statutory Declaration:
http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=142&t=52302&p=173398&hilit=speeding+fine#p167554

Info on how & when tickets are issued
http://www.which.co.uk/cars/driving/driving-advice/dealing-with-speeding-tickets/speeding-fines-your-rights/
ACPO speed enforcement guidelines
Speed limit: Min speed for a speeding ticket: Min speed for prosecution:
20mph 25mph 35mph
30mph 35mph 50mph
40mph 46mph 66mph
50mph 57mph 76mph
60mph 68mph 86mph
70 mph 79mph 96mph

NOTE: The above is not copying clearly, split the headers to the three seperate limits below them.

What will happen if you are caught speeding
You have 28 days to respond to a speeding fine

If a car is seen speeding, the registered keeper will receive a Notice of Intended Prosecution (NIP) detailing the offence, and a document called a Section 172 notice.

You must respond within 28 days, using the Section 172 notice to nominate the person who was driving at the time of the alleged speeding offence. Not doing so is a separate, specific offence which could lead to a fine and penalty points being added to your driving licence.

If you were stopped by the police for speeding, the officer can give you a verbal warning of prosecution instead. An NIP is not required if the offence happened as part of a road traffic accident.

How long the police have to issue a speeding notice

The police must serve an NIP within 14 days of the alleged speeding offence, but there are some circumstances in which the notice will still stand even if it's served later than this, for example:
if extra time is needed for the police to act with 'reasonable diligence' to find out who the registered keeper is and how to contact them; or
if the delay was the driver’s fault, for example because they have not told the DVLA of a recent change of address.

If you receive a speeding ticket
With most minor speeding offences, when you return the NIP, you'll receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty Notice (FPN).

You can choose either to pay this and accept the penalty points or, if you don't think the speeding ticket is correct, contest the speeding charge in court.

When deciding whether to contest a speeding charge, you should bear in mind that, in court, the prosecution’s role is simply to prove that a driver was speeding.

Defences such as you did not intend to speed, didn't know you were speeding or you only exceeded the speed limit for a short time will not be taken into consideration.

If the police prosecute you for speeding
If you already have more than eight points on your licence, or if you were travelling way above the speed limit, the police may choose to prosecute you in court. In this case, you will be sent a court summons.

The police have up to six months from the date of the offence to start speeding court proceedings.

Penalty charge notice PCN..fixed penalty charges
http://lawfulrebellion.org/wp-…..ellion.zip

The BoEVAT remedy:
Firstly only a court can issue a fine so what the likes of many so-called fines are really are charges, falling under fixed penalty notices/charges.

So under the legal side of things we go into the 'Bills Of Exchange Act 1882' & taking VAT charging into consideration so if you are ever sent or receive a fixed penalty notice/charge, then write or if confronted directly state you demand a full VAT 'invoice', failure for them to do so in effect brings them into VAT fraud, it also brings about checkmate it appears to be a golden bullet against all these criminals who try to extort money from us.
http://boevat.org.uk/

Around the 39min mark the info about BoEVAT starts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mu3WVMdrjPg

could try this:

How to beat UK speeding tickets (2014)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNxvlr_OKyg

challenge "authority" & demand to know how do statues/act apply to you as a man/woman & as a wo/man do you have to OBEY? - interesting.

try reading this thread from start to finish.

https://goodf.forumotion.com/t396-correspondence-from-the-pole-ice#2383

Good luck

Verification of all the above actually comes directly from the Po-lice themselves, any po-lice vehicle so equipped always has two speedometers, one is the standard speedometer and the other one is a calibrated speedometer and this must be calibrated at specified intervals. If the car speedo were accurate why would they need a second speedometer which is calibrated.

Hi guys

Kestrel - wow! So much info in one comment - thanks!

LionsShare - thanks, i enjoyed that re-read old thread. Wonder how he got on....?

assassin - good one! Someone told me that 30 years ago, i'm amazed we can still use it!

Epsom - whatever he goes with it's all based on conditional acceptance. What are T.H.E.Y. demanding he do?

Cheers!

hi iamani,

think I will re-post every time i see something like this. It probably might be a good idea if a section for anything motor related could be set up as on the old site to inform all. Perhaps a general posting with all the most relavent or even better peoples' own experience that they won or got a stalemate with. The latter being the best.

As to how he got on? nothing has been posted i have seen so it is disappointing when people ask & don't follow through with results as to what happened for them.

Hi LionsShare

Actually, have you checked out the 'speeding camera notice' latest posts (on 'general')?

Good idea on the motor-related bit, but i think there's a bit of a taboo with that tbh. It's a bit frustrating but i do kind of understand it - it seems to have been a particularly fiercely contested arena resulting in harsh penalty in the past. If someone finds something that works for them now they might not wish to rock the boat too much by publicising it...... who knows? (Still think it's a good idea though!)

Cheers!

Hi iamani,

to answer your question yes! a good interesting post by ausk.

yes agree it is a bit taboo, but still the need to get out info to me is more important as all  need to know how they are "done over", if more could begin to comprehend what is really going on perhaps allot more would "come out to play" & start to put a stop to all this. If the pay by endorsement had not come out, would have been none the wiser. We see how in your face they are by ignoring safety cert's, case law etc. People are simply going to have to stand up & go against these idiots & let them know WE know - anyway hay-ho will have to wait to see what comes out further, if I end up getting another ticket again will make an offer based on various criteria I lay down. Think I have enough now to push forward.

If I had a wealth of knowledge 10 years back would have been in a much better place to defend against my last speeding ticket.

Hi LionsShare

Yes, Ausk's post was good but i meant toolapcblack's post was relevant to the old thread you posted, and also to one of your recent points on this thread....

Trouble is on the motor-related side that people don't want to look any further into it than a quick-fix for a ticket. It's a subject that needs to be taken in context with the whole 'know thyself and fear not' theme, just like debt relief, to appreciate what's really going on.

You're hip to it and putting the work in, like others here. Unfortunately the masses have yet to break the conditioning that enslaves them, they are as we once were - comfortable in their ignorance, and lazy.

People are waking up though......

Cheers!

The problem is that they simply cannot make them accurate for one simple reason, tyre wear.

With a new set of tyres on the driving wheels of any car, they have around 7mm of tread depth, or 14mm on the circumference of a tyre, with a legal limit of a minimum tread depth of 1.6mm or 3.2mm on the circumference as the minimum you lose 10.8mm of circumference on a tyre and this alters the rolling radius. By altering the diameter or rolling radius you also alter the speed for a given engine RPM in a specific gear.

I have calculated out my own vehicle and its rolling radius, the rolling radius is the distance the vehicle will travel with one full turn or revolution of the driving wheels.

With new tyres my vehicle will travel 85.46" for one full revolution of the driving wheels.
With tyres worn to the legal limit my vehicle will travel 82.321"for one full revolution of the driving wheels.

Same vehicle, same tyres, yet with worn tyres it will travel 3.14" less per revolution than it would than when they were new, and no speedometer can account for tyre wear and altering rolling radii.

Thanks everyone for your comments and advice etc on my post.

I have given the person in question the advice and information in the post's, but as yet do not know what he intends to do ( I don't see him that often).
If I get any info on his actions, I will post here.

Thanks again.

iamani wrote:Hi LionsShare

Yes, Ausk's post was good but i meant toolapcblack's post was relevant to the old thread you posted, and also to one of your recent points on this thread....

HI iamani,

did see that post simply did not twigg what you were on about.

LS

assassin wrote:Verification of all the above actually comes directly from the Po-lice themselves, any po-lice vehicle so equipped always has two speedometers, one is the standard speedometer and the other one is a calibrated speedometer and this must be calibrated at specified intervals. If the car speedo were accurate why would they need a second speedometer which is calibrated.

So you ask them for documentary evidence the speed camera was within its calibration specifications when the pic of your car was taken. They will tell you "yes I can because it was calibrated before use. This is only a field calibration, which only checks to see if its works as planned.

Only a full calibration of the machine to ensure the camera is operating with in its specifications can be relied upon so you demand a copy of the full calibration certificate and look at the date.

Cross examination questions when you make them take you to court

Can you prove with documentary evidence this picture has not been altered?
Can you prove with documentary evidence this camera was within its calibrated specification limits when this picture was taken? ( particularly after obtaining evidence from the cops via a notice of discover or notice to produce that its ANNUAL calibration was say ... 9 months ago?
Can you prove with documentary evidence this camera has not been corrupted with a virus?

Get the operators manual for the camera concerned and go through it with an eye to find things you can ask them cross examination questions on.

Take photos of pictures of vehicles the same as yours but with a slightly different number plate. Show them to the cop and ask:

Can you prove the vehicle in your cameras picture was not this car? or this car? or this car?

The answers to all these questions is always no and you only have to create reasonable doubt remember!

LionsShare wrote:Hi iamani,

to answer your question yes! a good interesting post by ausk.

yes agree it is a bit taboo, but still the need to get out info to me is more important as all  need to know how they are "done over", if more could begin to comprehend what is really going on perhaps allot more would "come out to play" & start to put a stop to all this. If the pay by endorsement had not come out, would have been none the wiser. We see how in your face they are by ignoring safety cert's, case law etc. People are simply going to have to stand up & go against these idiots & let them know WE know - anyway hay-ho will have to wait to see what comes out further, if I end up getting another ticket again will make an offer based on various criteria I lay down. Think I have enough now to push forward.

If I had a wealth of knowledge 10 years back would have been in a much better place to defend against my last speeding ticket.

perhaps you might like to consider going to aussiespeedingfines and buy their guide. i know its not Englsih but the tactics are the same The book contains a lot of good info and letters to write. With your english quids its only half price for you. I paid aobut $80 bucks for mine.