Littering 'accusation'

by JL2013 Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:12 pm

Hi guys.

Allow me to first point out the fact that I am no newcomer to GOODF, but this is the first time I have actually asked for advice.

So, that over with, I have a predicament. I'll try to keep it as simple as I see it. Sticking to facts only, no heresy.

Last year, In January I believe I was attending my regular university lecture, with a paper cup of coffee. It was in a separate building to where I store my things to get home. Therefore, it was a requirement after the lecture that I take all of my belongings (paper cup included) back to the university building where I could get suitably outfitted to make the motorcycle journey home (also the bike was parked there, the other building that is).

10 yards or so away from my destination, in very strong winds, the cup was blown from my hand. I had carried the empty cup at least half a mile with the impetus of placing it in an appropriate bin. Just my luck.

The wind took the cup some 100 yards away from me, therefore I decided to ditch my incredibly heavy bag (containing books, laptop, camera etc) in the building before chasing the cup. Yet, almost immediately I was confronted with a council officer asserting as fact that I had thrown and discarded the item. Claiming he had video evidence (which I think he does not).

That is simply not the case.

A year later, they are demanding, through a third party debt collector the princely sum of £600 for this act of god.

What can I do? This is very unjust and has caused real upset.

Recently, this debt collector conned £300 of my money out of my partner through intimidation, duress. She was scared. He lied and she bought it, hook line and sinker.

How do I deal with these people?

To

by JL2013 Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:39 pm

I am not here looking for a 'free ride' out of littering, let's look at the facts.

Alleged littering offence, which I contest heavily because I can not control the wind.
If they do have video evidence as they suggested, then it would provide evidence to support the fact above.
I don't think they have any evidence, I think they have bulk processed it, and some pleb made a Christmas bonus at my expense.
I have an enduring mental health condition called agoraphobia, which I hate more intensely than you could possibly imagine. I made bad decisions accordingly.

I got duped. I need some help.

by JL2013 Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:40 pm

Ceylon? Anyone? 3 letters?

by JL2013 Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:38 pm

All right. I've been doing a little digging. So the council sold the debt to Marsdens group, and the mafioso style retards they keep sending around are amateur at best.

I have called them and they are too afraid too even disclose the details of their CEO. Which is information I feel entitled to.

Next move is a FOI request because I don't believe the evidence exists. With the council.

People get bullied. I am being bullied by these people.

by Tiggy Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:47 pm

How has this managed to get to £600, have they not been sent any documentation ?

Has this become a Court fine ?

Also, I doubt the Council has sold it to Marstons, they're probably just working on their behalf.

by Ausk Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:22 am

Read carefully, delete that which is not relevant and
edit as is required.

AFFIDAVIT OF SPECIFIC NEGATIVE AVERMENT
The undersigned Affiant, (XXXX), hereinafter “Affiant”, in care of (XXXX) YOUR ADDERESS, etc, does solemnly swear, declare and state as follows:
1. Affiant is competent to state the matters set forth herein; and
2. Affiant has knowledge of the facts stated herein; and
3. All the facts herein are true, correct and complete, admissible as evidence and if called upon as a witness, Affiant will testify to their veracity; and
Plain Statement of Facts.
4. Affiant sees no verifiable evidence the wind played no role in the cup ending up on the ground, signed and sworn by an officer of the (xyz Council/Marstons whoever) hereinafter “THE CLAIMENT”, or any other Council Officer whose duty it is to enforce littering laws in (council or county, whatever) and Affiant believes that no such evidence exists; and
5. Affiant sees no verifiable evidence that the accused driver, (XXXX), was operating the motor bike at the time, date and location of the alleged offence and Affiant believes that no such evidence exists.

by JL2013 Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:13 am

Thank you Ausk. It's very kind of you to take the time to draft that out on my behalf. I will post it to them as they don't seem to be otherwise contactable and reply here with results.

by JL2013 Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:59 am

Tiggy wrote:How has this managed to get to £600, have they not been sent any documentation ?

Has this become a Court fine ?

Also, I doubt the Council has sold it to Marstons, they're probably just working on their behalf.

Tiggy, I have been away studying at university for 18 months. I had no idea they were actually pursuing it and can only assume the extra charges are an act of pure fiction.

by Tiggy Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:53 am

JL2013 wrote:
Tiggy wrote:How has this managed to get to £600, have they not been sent any documentation ?

Has this become a Court fine ?

Also, I doubt the Council has sold it to Marstons, they're probably just working on their behalf.

Tiggy, I have been away studying at university for 18 months. I had no idea they were actually pursuing it and can only assume the extra charges are an act of pure fiction.

If it's a Magistrates Court fine put in a statutory declaration, if it's straight from the council appeal it to their tribunal.

by Theatchet Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:27 pm

As shit as the BBC is, this was a good documentary on the private firms ( Working on behalf of councils ), and the underhand tactics these companies are using. Panorama went undercover. They are getting bonuses for writing tickets and literally following people about, waiting for them to drop something, then using intimidation, threatening to get the police involved, etc etc... As it is an act, they need your consent to enforce. You then give your details in panic ( consenting, entering into a contract through joinder ).

Doesn't help you much I know, but worth a watch and educating yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Pi6C1FVuhY&t=5s

by JL2013 Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:23 am

Tiggy wrote:
JL2013 wrote:
Tiggy wrote:How has this managed to get to £600, have they not been sent any documentation ?

Has this become a Court fine ?

Also, I doubt the Council has sold it to Marstons, they're probably just working on their behalf.

Tiggy, I have been away studying at university for 18 months. I had no idea they were actually pursuing it and can only assume the extra charges are an act of pure fiction.
If it's a Magistrates Court fine put in a statutory declaration, if it's straight from the council appeal it to their tribunal.

Hi Tiggy, am I missing something, I've always been told appealing is the worst thing you can do, because you admit liability.

by **LionsShare** Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:03 pm

Hi,

this may help:

http://boevat.org.uk/about-pcns/

read about pcn & how they work. On this web site you will find reference to parking tickets, the same principal should apply. Its all about making money & nothing else!

also

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/aep/WillandMarSess2/1/2/introduction

"Grants of Forfeitures.

That all Grants and Promises of Fines and Forfeitures of particular persons before Conviction are illegall and void."

When you give your details you effectlvly "contract" - if you like agree to pay...

You can always reserve your inalienable right to NOT perform under "contract"

this should be come clear in the:

http://boevat.org.uk/

web site!

by JL2013 Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:18 pm

LionsShare wrote:Hi,
Its all about making money & nothing else!

That's what upsets me so much about it. I'm generally nervous out and about as it is because of various problems and Uni has been a real battle. And for these people to jump on me and take advantage of the fact by intimidating me is disgusting. Especially when one considers as a mature student I have no real income to pay their made up fines, and for that privilege they actually demand more money.

They literally take advantage of the poorest and most struggling members of society, it all makes me sick.

LionsShare wrote:Hi,

this may help:

OMITTED

read about pcn & how they work. On this web site you will find reference to parking tickets, the same principal should apply. Its all about making money & nothing else!

also

OMITTED

"Grants of Forfeitures.

That all Grants and Promises of Fines and Forfeitures of particular persons before Conviction are illegall and void."

When you give your details you effectlvly "contract" - if you like agree to pay...

You can always reserve your inalienable right to NOT perform under "contract"

this should be come clear in the:

OMITTED

web site!

Wow, thank you. It seems like I have a lot of reading to do.

by Tiggy Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:24 pm

JL2013 wrote:
Tiggy wrote:
JL2013 wrote:
Tiggy wrote:How has this managed to get to £600, have they not been sent any documentation ?

Has this become a Court fine ?

Also, I doubt the Council has sold it to Marstons, they're probably just working on their behalf.

Tiggy, I have been away studying at university for 18 months. I had no idea they were actually pursuing it and can only assume the extra charges are an act of pure fiction.
If it's a Magistrates Court fine put in a statutory declaration, if it's straight from the council appeal it to their tribunal.

Hi Tiggy, am I missing something, I've always been told appealing is the worst thing you can do, because you admit liability.

Your partner has already paid £300 for this, ignoring it is just going to increase the costs they keep banging on, what did this start of as £25?

How can an appeal possibly construed as an admittance of liability !

by JL2013 Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:55 pm

Tiggy wrote:
JL2013 wrote:
Tiggy wrote:
JL2013 wrote:
Tiggy wrote:How has this managed to get to £600, have they not been sent any documentation ?

Has this become a Court fine ?

Also, I doubt the Council has sold it to Marstons, they're probably just working on their behalf.

Tiggy, I have been away studying at university for 18 months. I had no idea they were actually pursuing it and can only assume the extra charges are an act of pure fiction.
If it's a Magistrates Court fine put in a statutory declaration, if it's straight from the council appeal it to their tribunal.

Hi Tiggy, am I missing something, I've always been told appealing is the worst thing you can do, because you admit liability.

Your partner has already paid £300 for this, ignoring it is just going to increase the costs they keep banging on, what did this start of as £25?

How can an appeal possibly construed as an admittance of liability !

It started if I remember correctly at £80. And it's not being ignored at all. It is my consideration that the fact they have been sending correspondence to an erroneous address shouldn't be my responsibility (although they won't see it that way). Furthermore, It came during end of semester exams and I wasn't about to start making some fictitious allegation from the council a priority over months of study.

If it was just, I assumed, I would have been served with a summons, where I would be given the opportunity to put forth a case to the contrary of their allegations, and this simply did not, that I am aware of, happen.

And I suppose, in the context of an appeal, it is my understanding that I would be appealing to the council to waiver or reduce the amount owing based on my personal circumstances, and not the decision that I am guilty. It makes better sense now however because my compliance (under duress I might add) was also taken de facto as my tacit complicity to pay the sum demanded by way of contract. Therefore an apeeal would be unlikely to make any significant difference to the decision in any case.

I'm not studying law so, I don't know the ins and outs of it.

by **LionsShare** Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:31 pm

JL2013 wrote:And I suppose, in the context of an appeal, it is my understanding that I would be appealing to the council to waiver or reduce the amount owing based on my personal circumstances

Using your own words "waiver or reduce the amount" may be I am wrong, but is that in itself sort of saying "guilty as charged but take into consideration..."

by JL2013 Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:41 pm

LionsShare wrote:
JL2013 wrote:And I suppose, in the context of an appeal, it is my understanding that I would be appealing to the council to waiver or reduce the amount owing based on my personal circumstances
Using your own words "waiver or reduce the amount" may be I am wrong, but is that in itself sort of saying "guilty as charged but take into consideration..."

Precisely.

by **LionsShare** Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:41 pm

Something else you might care to research the definition of FIAT currency.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money

"an intrinsically useless object that serves as a medium of exchange"

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/fiatmoney.asp

"
What is 'Fiat Money'

Fiat money is currency that a government has declared to be legal tender, but it is not backed by a physical commodity. The value of fiat money is derived from the relationship between supply and demand rather than the value of the material that the money is made of. Historically, most currencies were based on physical commodities such as gold or silver, but fiat money is based solely on the faith and credit of the economy."

You could ask "How do I pay an amount of NOTHING" - just an opinion lol!

Also learn to ask some seriously awkward questions - possibly a counter offer?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNxvlr_OKyg

How to beat UK speeding tickets (2014)

You could read this thread from start to finish - alot of very good info surounding this & slavery!

https://goodf.forumotion.com/t1088p25-water-company-demand-using-debt-collector#8474

Good luck!

by **LionsShare** Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:43 pm

there have been many references around the WWW - deal with your own case & NOT theirs, don't fill in their paper work write ONLY your own legal notices etc.

Always remember to use "this legal notice forms a record of the parties" & "absent a response & compliance creates a legal record".

I have stated this in several of my posts.

Again good luck!

by JL2013 Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:50 pm

LionsShare wrote:there have been many references around the WWW - deal with your own case & NOT theirs, don't fill in their paper work write ONLY your own legal notices etc.

Always remember to use "this legal notice forms a record of the parties" & "absent a response & compliance creates a legal record".

I have stated this in several of my posts.

Again good luck!

Thanks you again, you have all been very helpful. I'll let you know how I get on.

by Tiggy Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:21 pm

If a summons went to the wrong address then the documents have been irregularly served, hence why I suggested a Statutory Declaration.

A Statutory Declaration unwinds the whole process and allows you to challenge / defend against the accusation, anything else and they will ignore.

by JL2013 Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:27 pm

I've discovered that the bailiff is explicitly claiming they are working on behalf of HMCTS (Liverpool magistrates court).

Therefore I will telephone HMCTS tomorrow to ascertain the veracity of that claim and if it is true send a Statutory Declaration as suggested.

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