Mask refusal fine deadline follow up letter

by mitch Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:01 pm

Received by friend who is in process of suing police for assault and then fined for no mask in shop. The shop say they have posted the requested cctv footage of the assault

by **daveiron** Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:07 pm

Hi mitch,

remedy is contained here ,pay particular attention from 19 mins in.
I have peinted out and laminated the relevant section of the Act of Union 1707
and carry it with me at all times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzTW5wAWb6c

by mitch Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:43 am

She's had a plea sheet in post today. A not guilty plea means it goes to trial.

by **LionsShare** Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:58 am

sounds similar to what I had over speeding? single justice procedure for me was offered at £660 - yes £660, so I told them to do 1. I know that's not particularly helpful but its what happened to me.

by mitch Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:27 pm

Police are breaking the law by enforcing a govt guideline as they can only lawfully enforce criminal law.

She made it clear that she did not consent and gave her details under duress and was assaulted out of the shop.

What would be the consequences of replying to the plea with this?

She also now has the cctv of the assault from the shop.

by mitch Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:29 pm

LionsShare wrote:sounds similar to what I had over speeding? single justice procedure for me was offered at £660 - yes £660, so I told them to do 1. I know that's not particularly helpful but its what happened to me.

Did you tell them to do one by letter or in court?

by **LionsShare** Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:27 pm

letter - mode NO difference - still got done made the mistake of NOT turning up.

(1983)

by mitch Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:37 pm

So if she doesn't turn up i wonder if this mask fine will go to a bailiff or recorded as a CCJ?

by **LionsShare** Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:03 pm

I ended up with a charge order on my car, coupled with the threats of kidnap, false imprison... & violence I discharged close £1k as a 'fine'.

More over the threats of kidnap, false imprison... & violence made me change my mind regarding me.

I am getting older than I used to be so I gave discharge.

(1984) was that quite a year?

by flyingfish Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:44 pm

mitch wrote:So if she doesn't turn up i wonder if this mask fine will go to a bailiff or recorded as a CCJ?

The original fixed penalty is now history as it wasn't taken up. It can't be registered as an unpaid fine, and they can't enforce any collection measures. Ignoring it put the ball back in their court (pun not intended).

If she's now received a SJPN then no response will be taken as a not guilty plea. However short of a prosecution screw up it would be pretty certain she'd be convicted in her absence if she doesn't attend. I understand the concern about going to court, but if she feels she was justified in not wearing the mask, does she not want to defend on that basis?

by mitch Sun May 16, 2021 9:22 am

She's had a court summons for July for the mask compliance incident and £200 fine refusal. If she doesn't attend a warrant will be issued for her arrest. I've just seen a letter from ARCO to someone else who bravely kept their business open. Their charges have been dropped. Charges in both cases were brought by ARCO. What would others do in this situation?

Mask refusal fine deadline follow up letter Frank_12

Mask refusal fine deadline follow up letter Arco11

by **daveiron** Sun May 16, 2021 10:59 am

Hi mitch,

It may be worth getting in touch with these guys for advice.

https://the-great-reopening.com/

scroll down the page .

by **assassin** Sun May 16, 2021 4:14 pm

On your plea they only give you two options, they are the two options they want to give you.
There is a third, no case to answer, this is the one I would use and cite case law where police have incorrectly issued these tickets and courts have overturned them, then you put the court in a quandry, they know that any judgement against you will open up a civil claim against the magistrates and the clerk of the court.

I would also ask (under the form of a subject access request (SAR) for the insurance bond details of all the magistrates and clerk of the court, allocated to this case and this shows you mean business.

by flyingfish Mon May 17, 2021 8:05 am

Let us know how it goes whatever path you take. All too often we never hear what happens, and it's important that we see feedback so that if necessary the advice to future posts can be refined. I'd be particularly interested if you try the "no case to answer", to see how exactly that was handled by the court.

by mitch Tue May 18, 2021 9:37 pm

Passed on this info to her and wants know how to do the SARs request for this. Is there a template?

by **daveiron** Tue May 18, 2021 10:30 pm

Just word it: this is a Data Subject Access Request please supply (then add
what you need.)

Did they ask her why she was not wearing one.She only needs to say
she is exempt,they are not allowed ask what the exemption is.
If it causes her stress or anxiety thats classed as a disability under the
Equalities Act 2010 .You do not need a doctors confirmation .and no one can
prove she does not have that disability. ( i am starting litigation with Morrisons
for the same reason)

by **daveiron** Tue May 18, 2021 10:36 pm

From what i comprehend these cases are not being upheld by the courts.
So its vital she turns up.

Seen it reported several times now ,will try to find a report if i can.

by flyingfish Wed May 19, 2021 8:13 am

It might be better to see if it can be handled without relying on the Equality Act, to avoid having to show that the condition meets the definition of "Protected Characteristic" in the act. In particular the requirement that "the impairment has a substantial and long-term adverse effect on P's ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities.". I can imagine plenty of perfectly justifiable reasons for inability to wear a mask, which would not fall within that definition. In fact an important factor in the mask issue is the fact that people are not supposed to have to justify their exemption.

by mitch Wed May 19, 2021 11:01 am

One of the mask exemption definitions on the gov website is "where putting on, wearing or removing a face covering will cause you severe distress".

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own

So simply saying this to the police should be enough to stop further police and court action I would have thought, and also no need to rely on Equality Act.

by **assassin** Thu May 20, 2021 2:32 am

I disagree Mitch as the more legislation and maxims of law we include, the more magistrates are unikely to prosecute, hence citing the High Court as evidence.

by **daveiron** Thu May 20, 2021 7:16 am

I agree 100% with assassin on this one. Mitch please read the Equality Act
its easy to read and comprehend,and while you are at it also look at the
Protection from harrasment act.
Not only is the equalities act your remedy here ,pay attention to sec 136 (2)
it pretty much ensures a claim from her should be successful. As the police
were involved she has the evidence for a claim.

by flyingfish Thu May 20, 2021 8:19 am

My read of the Equalities Act is that it only covers discrimination against those with a Protected Characteristic, as defined in Part 2 Chapter 1. Having said that I assume that when the word "disability" appears in the following clauses this means disability as defined in the Act, if anyone has found otherwise then it would be a great help to either give a walk through of the clauses that support this view, or case law.

by **Lopsum** Thu May 20, 2021 8:46 am

age
disability
gender reassignment
marriage and civil partnership
pregnancy and maternity
race
religion or belief
sex
sexual orientation
https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/equality-act/protected-characteristics

by **Lopsum** Thu May 20, 2021 8:51 am

Disability

A person has a disability if she or he has a physical or mental impairment which has a substantial and long-term adverse effect on that person's ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities.

by **Lopsum** Thu May 20, 2021 9:48 am

i would say exempt is the way to go, i agree with FF. Especially since disability wasnt mentioned at the time.
however you may not have known the appropriate explanation to give to the officer or that saying exempt is all you needed to do at that point in time ,understandably.
with exemption all you need is a reasonable excuse you dont need to qualify as disabled.
in england...

If putting on, wearing or removing a face covering will cause you severe distress.

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