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"We are applying for a warrant to change your meter"

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"We are applying for a warrant to change your meter"

Post by toolapcblack on Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:16 am

Good day all
So i have been paying utilities by endorsement.
and any non payment slipped windowed articles i receive through the mail i have been returning un-claiming and recording for fraud!

so over the last couple of days i have had duplicated windowed mail delivered instead of sending all back i opened one addressed to the occupier to see what their game was, and low and behold they have set a Magic strates court date for the 6th of November to apply for a warrant to fit a pay as you go meter (bunch of C U Next Thursdays) on the 21st.

I remember something about getting the property a gas safe certificate?

What would be the best way to combat this?

Many Thanks
J

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Re: "We are applying for a warrant to change your meter"

Post by Lopsum on Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:03 pm

Turn up to the hearing with a valid gas safe cert . Ask them why they have applied for the warrant. Remind them of the gas acts, neither allow forced entry for prepayment fitting.
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Re: "We are applying for a warrant to change your meter"

Post by LionsShare on Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:45 pm

Hi toolapcblack,

What lopsum states – get a gas safety cert’. I am at the stage where am having to deal with a 2nd dca & have sent a section 10 to the gas Co’ to stop processing my data & to inform their dca as well (don’t think that will happen so will send a sect 10 to dca as well).

I have some paper work have started to get together for court if it gets that far, suppose it will but who knows may not (have thought of sending a copy of my gas cert to gas Co’ as evidence & state “can you refute this – sort of thing” this would be trying to pre-empt action on their part – if they went to court knowing of the gas cert then they are committing purgery as they know the supply is safe!

Have you had any thoughts yourself of how you are going to deal with this?
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Re: "We are applying for a warrant to change your meter"

Post by LionsShare on Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:58 pm

Also remind them that these acts are statutory instruments & cannot be forced with out your PERMISSION. You could also read :

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006/2011/made

look at section 4 &

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006/2010/pdfs/uksi_20062010_en.pdf

for electric & again read section 4 - if you want to go down this route?

Also watch out for any dodgey narrative on thier warrants - "in the local justice area of..." - that was in 1 of the pay by endorsement vids on yt I think!
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Re: "We are applying for a warrant to change your meter"

Post by toolapcblack on Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:55 pm

Many thanks for the replies.

Lionshare in answer to your question:
My preference would be to fight this with the fact that i have not received any correctly addressed postal mail (all articles have been windowed, glossed or both) so as nothing has ever came for me to claim how would i know of any court proceedings.... but alas as the game is so very rigged & i feel they will plough on regardless (i have also fallen foul to their game, previously with my mortgage).
I think i will have to face them again in their place of corruption with as strong a case as possible.

cheers
j

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Re: "We are applying for a warrant to change your meter"

Post by LionsShare on Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:16 pm

good luck, all the best with this!
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Re: "We are applying for a warrant to change your meter"

Post by iamani on Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:45 pm

Hi toolapcblack

If you've been paying by endorsement (good man!) then you must have acknowledged the NAME, so you must have accepted franked windowed glossa'd mail at some point. This might make it difficult to argue over such at this stage of events.

In any event you don't want to argue ANYTHING in a court building, deal with it now in writing while there's still time.

Do you keep copies of the instruments you endorse, and receipts for their postage at all?

Cheers!

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Re: "We are applying for a warrant to change your meter"

Post by LionsShare on Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:33 pm

hi toolapcblack

seriously iamani has said it - can't say it any different

Regards LS
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Re: "We are applying for a warrant to change your meter"

Post by LionsShare on Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:42 pm

another way of saying it, if you have excepted the supply (consideration) as "the PERSON" then  pay it  no matter how - ENDORSEMENT - DONE!

Also as I am trying - get it solved in writing - YES this is ignored so it may be considerd a waste if time
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Re: "We are applying for a warrant to change your meter"

Post by assassin on Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:50 pm

Remember, an unrebutted claim stands as judgement, and judgement stands as law, so they go to court knowing very few will attend, failure to attend as a defendant means the claim is unrebutted, and as an unrebutted claim becomes judgement and they play on this and claim most/all judgements are unrebutted and win.
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Re: "We are applying for a warrant to change your meter"

Post by daveiron on Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:29 pm

I agree with Lopsum & assassin,

From what i have gleaned from others work ,is get the certificate & turn up in court .It would not surprise me that if you do that it will be withdrawn before the hearing.

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Re: "We are applying for a warrant to change your meter"

Post by toolapcblack on Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:58 pm

yes iamani i keep copies of postage(recorded delivery receipts) i also photograph the endorsed slip before posting out to them, so i could print this out!
should i try and deal with this in writing then? saying that i have paid by endorsement on such a date, and send them a photocopy of the gas cert etc?
I also opened another one of the letters which stated they have another court session booked, 24 hours after the first, for the electricity.

Any advice gratefully received
cheers
j

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Re: "We are applying for a warrant to change your meter"

Post by assassin on Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:45 pm

You cannot get a warrant to change a meter, only a warrant of entry to allow someone entry to test your supply under a safety concern which they must prove, if they have stated they are applying for a warrant to change your meter and this is documented in writing then they have committed fraud in writing and given you the evidence.

They have to show reasonable cause as to the safety issue, what there concerns are, and how they have come across these concerns and how it relates to your property, as opposed to other properties, and how they have identified your property as the one with the safety concern.
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Re: "We are applying for a warrant to change your meter"

Post by toolapcblack on Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:56 am

many thanks assassin!
What if I send them a letter/notice something like below?

Dear Sir/Madam,
I wish to thank you for your correspondence dated the xx Oct 2017.
British Gas cannot apply for a warrant to change the meter installed in a property, you can only apply for a Warrant of entry to inspect/test a supply under a safety concern, and as my property has an up-to-date Gas Safety Certificate issued on the xx of October 2017 you do not have grounds (or no valid reason) for pursuing this action.

As you have evidenced me that this is your intention in “writing” to apply for a warrant to change the meter, I consider this an act of Fraud, for which You shall be pursued for!
A Corporation as large as British Gas would be fully aware of the fraudulent nature of this action, as you have access to a wealth of legal knowledge. so your actions deem you to believe that your above the law and intend to act in any manner you seem fit! The massive amount of post I have received on this matter I consider harassment and the whole way you conduct your business has caused me a great deal of distress.
Yours


Last edited by toolapcblack on Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:59 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : sentence duplication)

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Re: "We are applying for a warrant to change your meter"

Post by daveiron on Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:07 am

Hi that sound fine, however if its not settled by the court date & you do not attend you will get screwed .
Even if you believe its sorted before the court date,get yourself there on the day and make sure.

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Re: "We are applying for a warrant to change your meter"

Post by toolapcblack on Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:13 am

thanks daveiron

they are really going for me as they have set two separate court dates on the 8th and 9th of November one for gas one for electric....I take it I will need to attend both?
or if I go on the 8th hopefully I can mention the one on the following day ....but can I trust the devious scum wont push something through the following day!

cheers
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Re: "We are applying for a warrant to change your meter"

Post by Tiggy on Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:49 am

Have they stated on what grounds they are applying for a warrant, have they quoted any specific legislation?

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Re: "We are applying for a warrant to change your meter"

Post by toolapcblack on Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:14 pm

Hi Tiggy yes they quote some legislation but i'm in work so don't have the paperwork with me, i will put it up latter
Thanks
J

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Re: "We are applying for a warrant to change your meter"

Post by Tiggy on Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:28 pm

@toolapcblack wrote:Hi Tiggy yes they quote some legislation but i'm in work so don't have the paperwork with me, i will put it up latter
Thanks
J
When you're being taken to Court it's always a good idea to look at what legislation they've quoted and be familiar with it to see how you can counter it.

I was once sent a notice of council tax liability, they quoted a liability under the 'Council Tax Enforcement Regulations 1993', it got blasted out of court when I attended, insisted on being heard by a magistrate and pointed out that what they quoted didn't exist. It should have been the Council Tax (Administration & Enforcement) Regulations 1992, these companies get lazy and incompetent, always try to use it against them.

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Re: "We are applying for a warrant to change your meter"

Post by iamani on Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:43 pm

Hi toolapcblack

Your letter is OK, and the advice from the big-guns is excellent as ever.

Thinking about it, hold off on the proof of payment - it's probably not necessary at the moment going by what the others have said.

We're all going to have to realise that any belligerence on our part is (while satisfying) un-necessary and detrimental to our cause - but that's just my opinion.

With that in mind, here is the letter i would send - feel free to use it or not, no offense will be taken.

Dear

It has been brought to my attention that you intend to apply for a Warrant of Entry at (address).

As the only legislation i am aware of that would allow you access to this property is geared towards maintaining the health and safety of the public, please find enclosed a copy of an up-to-date Gas Safety Certificate for said property.

Please advise me which specific Act and section of legislation you will be referring to in your application to court for a warrant.

If, as i suspect, you are doing this just to change the meter at said address then please be advised of two things:

1) The current meter is perfectly adequate and i do not consent to any change.

2) To apply for a Warrant of Entry on grounds of safety while knowing you intend to use it to fit a pre-payment meter at an address with a disputed account would be an act of fraud upon the court.

If i don't hear from you beforehand then it is my intention to attend the hearing with the up-to-date Gas Safety Certificate and any evidence you have already provided that verifies your fraudulent activity.

Having noticed you of my intentions if your representative should fail to attend the hearing then i reserve the right to charge you for my wasted time. Please note that copies of everything in this envelope will be sent to the court prior to any hearing.

Please find enclosed one Gas Safety Certificate (copy) and one invoice for same.


By:
All rights reserved.

Now i don't know what legislation the leccy will use, are they going to say someone smelt a leccy leak?

Good luck.

Cheers!


Last edited by iamani on Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: "We are applying for a warrant to change your meter"

Post by Candor on Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:38 pm

Using without prejudice needs to be put into context, you do realise that without prejudice can mean if you went to trial and wanted to call upon your notice here, the Judge can refuse to include it as evidence, which would be disappointing to say the least if you would have had the Utility bod up for perjury and deceit by common design with others.

Without prejudice to my rights not to using this document as proof in court if need be ...

Fword ...Let them walk right into it

They have been noticed, notice the Chief Con too, that the game is up.

Get a sparks to do a lecky safe check too, regards the account I think if it's in dispute they cannot change the meter, not sure where this is in the legislation, I know its out there somewhere.

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Re: "We are applying for a warrant to change your meter"

Post by iamani on Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:47 pm

Hi Candor

Thanks for the correction.

Cheers!

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Re: "We are applying for a warrant to change your meter"

Post by toolapcblack on Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:52 pm

ok many thanks for the letter.

so they quote the 1954 Gas and Electricity Boards Act rights and entry - section 2 (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Eliz2/2-3/21/section/2)

section 1 of the same act states the following
1 Restriction on exercise of rights of entry.

(1)No right of entry to which this Act applies shall be exercisable in respect of any premises except—
(a)with consent given by or on behalf of the occupier of the premises, or
(b)under the authority of a warrant granted under the next following section:Provided that this subsection shall not apply where entry is required in a case of emergency.
[F1(2)This Act applies to all rights of entry conferred by—
(a)the Gas Act 1986, regulations made under it or any other enactment relating to gas,
(b)Schedule 6 to the Electricity Act 1989, and
(c)any local enactment relating to gas or electricity,in so far as those rights are exercisable for the purposes of a [F2gas operator] or [F3an electricity operator].]
(3)No person shall be liable to a penalty, under any enactment relating to obstruction of the exercise of a right of entry to which this Act applies, by reason only of his refusing admission to a person who seeks to exercise the right of entry without a warrant granted under the next following section.


Last edited by toolapcblack on Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:54 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : missed section 1 off)

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Re: "We are applying for a warrant to change your meter"

Post by assassin on Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:38 pm

I wouldn't enclose a gas safety certificate, I would ask them for their reasons in going for a warrant and ask them to put this in writing, I would also ask them for their suspicions and how they arrived at their conclusions as you can let them take the case to court and present your certificate as evidence when you know what they are claiming.

If they state in writing that they are not going for a warrant to fit a new gas meter and it is a warrant of entry then you can ask them to explain why and to substantiate their claims, if they cannot then they are bringing a vexatious case and you can counterclaim.
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Re: "We are applying for a warrant to change your meter"

Post by Tiggy on Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:39 pm

@toolapcblack wrote:ok many thanks for the letter.

so they quote the 1954 Gas and Electricity Boards Act rights and entry - section 2 (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Eliz2/2-3/21/section/2)

section 1 of the same act states the following
1 Restriction on exercise of rights of entry.

(1)No right of entry to which this Act applies shall be exercisable in respect of any premises except—
(a)with consent given by or on behalf of the occupier of the premises, or
(b)under the authority of a warrant granted under the next following section:Provided that this subsection shall not apply where entry is required in a case of emergency.
[F1(2)This Act applies to all rights of entry conferred by—
(a)the Gas Act 1986, regulations made under it or any other enactment relating to gas,
(b)Schedule 6 to the Electricity Act 1989, and
(c)any local enactment relating to gas or electricity,in so far as those rights are exercisable for the purposes of a [F2gas operator] or [F3an electricity operator].]
(3)No person shall be liable to a penalty, under any enactment relating to obstruction of the exercise of a right of entry to which this Act applies, by reason only of his refusing admission to a person who seeks to exercise the right of entry without a warrant granted under the next following section.

So they're using Section 2

Warrant to authorise entry.

(1)Where it is shown to the satisfaction of a justice of the peace, on sworn information in writing,—

[F1(a)that admission to premises specified in the information is reasonably required by a gas operator or an electricity operator or by an employee of a gas operator or an electricity operator;]

(b)that [F2the operator or [F3any employee of the operator]], as the case may be, would, apart from the preceding section, be entitled for that purpose to exercise in respect of the premises a right of entry to which this Act applies; and

(c)that the requirements (if any) of the relevant enactment have been complied with,then subject to the provisions of this section the justice may by warrant under his hand authorise [F4the operator or [F3any employee of the operator]], as the case may be, to enter the premises, if need be by force.

(2)If, in a case to which the preceding subsection applies, the relevant enactment does not require notice of an intended entry to be given to the occupier of the premises, the justice shall not grant a warrant under this section in respect of the right of entry in question unless he is satisfied—
(a)that admission to the premises for the purpose specified in the information was sought by a person lawfully requiring entry in the exercise of that right, and was so sought after not less than twenty-four hours’ notice of the intended entry had been given to the occupier; or
(b)that admission to the premises for that purpose was sought in a case of emergency and was refused by or on behalf of the occupier; or
(c)that the premises are unoccupied; or
(d)that an application for admission to the premises would defeat the object of the entry.
[F5(3)Where paragraph (a) of subsection (2) above applies—
(a)section 46 of the Gas Act 1986 (if entry is required for the purposes of a [F6gas operator]); or
(b)section 109 of the Electricity Act 1989 (if entry is required for the purposes of [F7an electricity operator]),shall apply to the service of the notice required by that paragraph.]
[F8(4)Every warrant granted under this section shall continue in force until—
(a)the time when the purpose for which the entry is required is satisfied; or
(b)the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day on which the warrant was granted, whichever is the earlier.]

(5)Any person who, in the exercise of a right of entry under the authority of a warrant granted under this section, enters any premises which are unoccupied, or premises of which the occupier is temporarily absent, shall leave the premises as effectually secured against trespassers as he found them.

(6)Where a warrant is granted under this section in respect of a right of entry, then for the purposes of any enactment whereby—
(a)an obligation is imposed to make good damage, or to pay compensation, or to take any other step, in consequence of the exercise of the right of entry, or
(b)a penalty is imposed for obstructing the exercise of that right,any entry effected, or sought to be effected, under the authority of the warrant shall be treated as an entry effected, or sought to be effected, in the exercise of that right of entry.

(7)This section shall, in its application to Scotland, have effect as if for any reference to a justice of the peace there were substituted a reference to the sheriff and to a magistrate or justice of the peace having jurisdiction in the place where the premises entry to which is sought are situated.

So you need to delve into the Gas Act 1986 & Sch. 6 of the Electricity Act 1989.

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