Energy corps

Hi all,

I moved last year. It has been 17 months since OCCUPIER was first sent a notice by the energy company but I have not engaged with them. They have continued to send monthly notices to OCCUPIER with a figure of money they think I owe them. I've kept this money aside and suspect I have used much less energy than they believe, however the gas meter is outside according to their papers and figures, someone has popped along and read the meter. They have not done this with the electric as it is inside so they have overestimated.

Needless to say, I don't think an energy company can backdate payments over a year, so hypothetically the money, they can only force me to pay a years worth even if I manage to string this out for another year. So technically I do not need to put any more money aside?

They don't seem to be very forthcoming with coming to my door, as they have gone to the side to read the meter which also as a WOIRA inside the box.

Does anyone else have this situation?

I do remember reading somewhere that yes anything not claimed by the energy company over a year back cannot be sought or demanded. IE if the util Co have not billed for over a year they are not allowed to come after you for that, but anything more recent then yes they can.

always keep cash aside as we are in 1 hell of a time right now.

from my research it seems to vary what time span these scum are coming to fit pre pay or now some are reporting smart which you don't have to have. There is a thread on here with that info in, in the utilities section on the home page. People are reporting time span of 6 months or close to that as a minimum, some like you are over a year, 1 I saw claimed over 4 years - if true they got through the net until caught later.

Yes keep the WOIRA evident, thats all based on the info you have provided. Have you seen this? beleive it or not utilities are FREE. By all means read the thread thoroughly & see what you make of it.
https://goodf.forumotion.com/t5800-fiduciary-trusts-agreement#39531

its a trust relationship & the util Co have the responsibility to ensure they get paid, not you!

LionsShare wrote:I do remember reading somewhere that yes anything not claimed by the energy company over a year back cannot be sought or demanded. IE if the util Co have not billed for over a year they are not allowed to come after you for that, but anything more recent then yes they can.

always keep cash aside as we are in 1 hell of a time right now.

from my research it seems to vary what time span these scum are coming to fit pre pay or now some are reporting smart which you don't have to have. There is a thread on here with that info in, in the utilities section on the home page. People are reporting time span of 6 months or close to that as a minimum, some like you are over a year, 1 I saw claimed over 4 years - if true they got through the net until caught later.

Yes keep the WOIRA evident, thats all based on the info you have provided. Have you seen this? beleive it or not utilities are FREE. By all means read the thread thoroughly & see what you make of it.
https://goodf.forumotion.com/t5800-fiduciary-trusts-agreement#39531

its a trust relationship & the util Co have the responsibility to ensure they get paid, not you!

https://www.utilitybidder.co.uk/compare-business-energy/how-long-can-an-energy-company-backdate-a-bill/

"If you do owe money to your energy supplier and you notice that your bill has been backdated, it’s worth noting that you only need to pay for the energy you’ve used in the last 12 months. A bill cannot be backdated longer than 12 months due to a new regulation that was introduced by Ofgem in April 2018.

This prevents businesses from owing thousands of pounds to an energy supplier if they’ve been underpaying for a number of years."

I wil check out your other thread. Thanks. Haven't had any letters saying that they want to put in a payasyougo meter. Maybe cos they have no idea if anyone is actually living there?

brownowl wrote:I moved last year. It has been 17 months since OCCUPIER was first sent a notice by the energy company but I have not engaged with them. They have continued to send monthly notices to OCCUPIER with a figure of money they think I owe them.

Can you clarify exactly what they've sent of this period? The Back Billing rules refer to a situation where the supplier has not sent a bill at all, then suddenly tries to bill in arrears, and in that case they are only allowed to go back 12 months.  It does not apply if they've been sending bills but these have not been paid.  So really it depends on what was sent so far.

And you mention moving, was that moving into or out of the address in question? Clearly you've no liability for energy used before you took on ownership/occupancy/tenancy.  However that might be complicated if you didn't submit an opening reading, and/or the previous occupier didn't submit a closing reading.

Please also be aware that if they are writing to "the occupier" and not getting a response or payment, they may decide the property is unoccupied and the supply can be disconnected.

flyingfish wrote:

brownowl wrote:I moved last year. It has been 17 months since OCCUPIER was first sent a notice by the energy company but I have not engaged with them. They have continued to send monthly notices to OCCUPIER with a figure of money they think I owe them.

Can you clarify exactly what they've sent of this period? The Back Billing rules refer to a situation where the supplier has not sent a bill at all, then suddenly tries to bill in arrears, and in that case they are only allowed to go back 12 months.  It does not apply if they've been sending bills but these have not been paid.  So really it depends on what was sent so far.

And you mention moving, was that moving into or out of the address in question? Clearly you've no liability for energy used before you took on ownership/occupancy/tenancy.  However that might be complicated if you didn't submit an opening reading, and/or the previous occupier didn't submit a closing reading.

Please also be aware that if they are writing to "the occupier" and not getting a response or payment, they may decide the property is unoccupied and the supply can be disconnected.

Thanks for clarification on the Back Billing. They have sent bills, so I imagine the 1 year rule will not count.

I meant that I have moved IN to the address last June. I take a photo of the meter readings on a monthly basis.

If I were to give my name to the energy company now then how would they know when I moved in. I could say I moved in yesterday and not know who lived there before, so they would then bill me from there?

I guess I will have to wait until they cut me off! They know someone is here though so I don't think they will. Have you heard of people being cut off, I did not think this was a possibility in reality.

Ta

After 14 months of letters to occupier not being answered, I finally have a notice saying they want to install smart pay as you go meters.

I have an idea to switch "suppliers" and shortly afterwards tell them I have moved and then get letters to the occupier and just start again with the same process?

Any thoughts?

It might work, but might be seen as positively criminal, making false declarations to avoid payment.

Ok, fair enough. Do we really owe them payments? I've seen lots of people are just saying they have moved out?

always respond to them in kind depending on what's asked/demanded. Had a very not so interesting conversation with a 'supplier' last Friday, at least what I write to them they are taking notice of but ignoring at the same time from conversation content.

LionsShare wrote:always respond to them in kind depending on what's asked/demanded. Had a very not so interesting conversation with a 'supplier' last Friday, at least what I write to them they are taking notice of but ignoring at the same time from conversation content.

I am not sure what I would respond to the supplier with regard to them wanting to install a smart pay as you go meter. I could ask to see the contract that I have with them as I have no recollection of any dealings with them?

use the arguments here
https://goodf.forumotion.com/t5800-fiduciary-trusts-agreement

research what is the definition of the '£' & in turn what is the definition of that definition? if you see what I mean?

all so use pre pay meter regs 2006, 1x gas & 1x leccy sect4 in each, you don't have to have if you don't want. They are coming at us all with the wrong argument, its not debtor/creditor but Trust. making the forced install of pre pay illegal even in their own stats/acts

Its my belief that they cannot force a 'smart meter' However it may deter
them if you make it known that should they force entry and install a smart meter
you reserve your unalienable right to place any object ,ornament, device
wherever you wish ,whether or not it may have an adverse effect on the operation
of any smart device.
(A close wire mesh creates a Faraday cage.) You can stop it transmitting without
touching it. Therefor it no good to them.

LionsShare wrote:all so use pre pay meter regs 2006, 1x gas & 1x leccy sect4 in each, you don't have to have if you don't want. They are coming at us all with the wrong argument, its not debtor/creditor but Trust. making the forced install of pre pay illegal even in their own stats/acts

Wow literally written in the regs that they can't recover sums of money by means of installing a prepay meter!

daveiron wrote:Its my belief that they cannot force a 'smart meter'  However it may deter
them if you make it known that should they force entry and install a smart meter
you reserve your unalienable right to place any object ,ornament, device
wherever you wish ,whether or not it may have an adverse effect on the operation
of any smart device.
(A close wire mesh creates a Faraday cage.) You can stop it transmitting without
touching it. Therefor it no good to them.

 

Is there something quotable regarding that unalienable right?

brownowl wrote:Is there something quotable regarding that unalienable right?

its down to your situation you will have to think on your feet for that becasue its personal to you.

brownowl wrote:I am not sure what I would respond to the supplier with regard to them wanting to install a smart pay as you go meter. I could ask to see the contract that I have with them as I have no recollection of any dealings with them?

They will say you have what they term a "deemed contract" with the supplier incumbent when you moved in.  As you should know contracts almost never require explicit signatures, the contract is formed by offer and acceptance. The offer is the electricity supply, and using the supply is acceptance.  Because of the specialist nature of the privatised electricity industry, you will probably find this codified in the legislation, but even under common law that would form a contract.

Be wary of assurances that they can't fit a prepayment against your will. Under the Electricity Act where money is owed the Act allows them to fit a prepayment meter, or to disconnect.

In fact if you look on Lionshare's "Fit you own meter" group you will see a member who had a prepayment meter fitted under a court warrant, only a month or so ago.

Its your God given right . You can place anything you own wherever you
wish .If it is not touching their property there is nothing they can do.

to settle this I beleive this should be done in a court of chancery because of a breach of Trust in equity & its we that should bring the claim, but how?

They are in the wrong court, wrong juristiction, totally the wrong argument(s)

flyingfish wrote:In fact if you look on Lionshare's "Fit you own meter" group you will see a member who had a prepayment meter fitted under a court warrant, only a month or so ago.

I still have my origonals in

I've got something together quite soon regarding my adversary  'FLYING FISH WATER LTD'

flyingfish wrote:

brownowl wrote:I am not sure what I would respond to the supplier with regard to them wanting to install a smart pay as you go meter. I could ask to see the contract that I have with them as I have no recollection of any dealings with them?

They will say you have what they term a "deemed contract" with the supplier incumbent when you moved in.  As you should know contracts almost never require explicit signatures, the contract is formed by offer and acceptance. The offer is the electricity supply, and using the supply is acceptance.  Because of the specialist nature of the privatised electricity industry, you will probably find this codified in the legislation, but even under common law that would form a contract.

Be wary of assurances that they can't fit a prepayment against your will. Under the Electricity Act where money is owed the Act allows them to fit a prepayment meter, or to disconnect.

When it comes to 'deemed' contracts they will try anything for a profit. Bring down the Divine Creator of all that is & get them to prove who honestly has authority to force you into contract/agreement?

Regarding the 'privatised' nature FF may well be correct & FF is certainly correct about force fit of pre pay or disconnect, but, there's always a but. There are caveats.

Most here on goodf who follow the excellent info based on research & experience of others, when faced with adversaries may well think its all about debtor/creditor (dc) relationship(s)? No most definately NOT, why? If a DP gets in touch they come at you from a POV you will think is dc rightly from your own experience but its NOT. Narrative you may receive 'under the law & property act 1925.....' its actually a Trust POV & not dc.

Follow sect 59 sub 1 & 3 & the sentament is if a debt is purchased the debt is settled but they are coming form a Trust not dc POV. Trust Settlor, Benaficiary, Trustee. when signing an agreement that is the creation & placing into Trust the Res, the whatever??? the respective util Co's/'money lenders' are the Trustee & you are the Benificiary. Now ignore the sentament mentioned, when a debt is sold that actually collapses a Trust & a new trust is formed by the DP, they become the new Settlor of the new trust. There are 2 pos'ns open, they want to be the Benaficiary making you the Trustee, in equity attack it full on let them know you are NOT the Trustee by adding to you chosen process you follow the following question - Are you trying to constrew a Fiduciary relationship? - in seeing that, that lets them know you are not really to be trifiled with

utilities, again if it were a dc relationship FF probably is quite correct but look on YT for the trilogy of pay by endorse vids & the series of gas water & leccy are free. There is enough bite in the argumant its correct with those presenters getting not an out rite victory but a very good stalemate.

My situation I have proof through lack of proof it works.
genuine proper court action over alleged debt = none
door knockers a knockin =none
proof of debt from util Co's = none
accepted offer of open dialog to discuss = none
base ball bat - a - tappin with past due = none

There is bite to the argument of the tear off slip being a template for a BOE/a cheque - with the cheque there is stuff missing, no signature & no amount written words which is what is on a normal hand written cheque. For a BOE where is the Drawer, it not obvious.its incomplete, remember I don't have full disclosure so I have to make assumptions. What are yours?

Don't forget    'FLYING FISH WATER LTD' coming soon.

flyingfish wrote:

brownowl wrote:I am not sure what I would respond to the supplier with regard to them wanting to install a smart pay as you go meter. I could ask to see the contract that I have with them as I have no recollection of any dealings with them?

They will say you have what they term a "deemed contract" with the supplier incumbent when you moved in.  As you should know contracts almost never require explicit signatures, the contract is formed by offer and acceptance. The offer is the electricity supply, and using the supply is acceptance.  Because of the specialist nature of the privatised electricity industry, you will probably find this codified in the legislation, but even under common law that would form a contract.

Be wary of assurances that they can't fit a prepayment against your will. Under the Electricity Act where money is owed the Act allows them to fit a prepayment meter, or to disconnect.

In fact if you look on Lionshare's "Fit you own meter" group you will see a member who had a prepayment meter fitted under a court warrant, only a month or so ago.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1989/29/schedule/6/crossheading/deemed-contracts-in-certain-cases
Refers to deemed contracts.
What section has the part about where money is owed.

I've always been wary of the people who claim they should change your meter and that it can never get cut off and it is already paid for...

What would you advise - to call up and pay them?

LionsShare wrote:

flyingfish wrote:

brownowl wrote:I am not sure what I would respond to the supplier with regard to them wanting to install a smart pay as you go meter. I could ask to see the contract that I have with them as I have no recollection of any dealings with them?

They will say you have what they term a "deemed contract" with the supplier incumbent when you moved in.  As you should know contracts almost never require explicit signatures, the contract is formed by offer and acceptance. The offer is the electricity supply, and using the supply is acceptance.  Because of the specialist nature of the privatised electricity industry, you will probably find this codified in the legislation, but even under common law that would form a contract.

Be wary of assurances that they can't fit a prepayment against your will. Under the Electricity Act where money is owed the Act allows them to fit a prepayment meter, or to disconnect.

When it comes to 'deemed' contracts they will try anything for a profit. Bring down the Divine Creator of all that is & get them to prove who honestly has authority to force you into contract/agreement?

Regarding the 'privatised' nature FF may well be correct & FF is certainly correct about force fit of pre pay or disconnect, but, there's always a but. There are caveats.

Most here on goodf who follow the excellent info based on research & experience of others, when faced with adversaries may well think its all about debtor/creditor (dc) relationship(s)? No most definately NOT, why? If a DP gets in touch they come at you from a POV you will think is dc rightly from your own experience but its NOT. Narrative you may receive 'under the law & property act 1925.....' its actually a Trust POV & not dc.

Follow sect 59 sub 1 & 3 & the sentament is if a debt is purchased the debt is settled but they are coming form a Trust not dc POV. Trust Settlor, Benaficiary, Trustee. when signing an agreement that is the creation & placing into Trust the Res, the whatever??? the respective util Co's/'money lenders' are the Trustee & you are the Benificiary. Now ignore the sentament mentioned, when a debt is sold that actually collapses a Trust & a new trust is formed by the DP, they become the new Settlor of the new trust. There are 2 pos'ns open, they want to be the Benaficiary making you the Trustee, in equity attack it full on let them know you are NOT the Trustee by adding to you chosen process you follow the following question - Are you trying to constrew a Fiduciary relationship? - in seeing that, that lets them know you are not really to be trifiled with

utilities, again if it were a dc relationship FF probably is quite correct but look on YT for the trilogy of pay by endorse vids & the series of gas water & leccy are free. There is enough bite in the argumant its correct with those presenters getting not an out rite victory but a very good stalemate.

My situation I have proof through lack of proof it works.
genuine proper court action over alleged debt = none
door knockers a knockin =none
proof of debt from util Co's = none
accepted offer of open dialog to discuss = none
base ball bat - a - tappin with past due = none

There is bite to the argument of the tear off slip being a template for a BOE/a cheque - with the cheque there is stuff missing, no signature & no amount written words which is what is on a normal hand written cheque. For a BOE where is the Drawer, it not obvious.its incomplete, remember I don't have full disclosure so I have to make assumptions. What are yours?

Don't forget    'FLYING FISH WATER LTD' coming soon.

I've watched many of the gas and leccy are free videos. Does paying by endorsement or A4V actually work? I would need to actually give them my name and get them to send me a giro for that.
I am not advanced enough to understand everything you have written but will have to do some research.

I was thinking, I could just bide some time by,

Asking for the contract - I know that it is a deemed contract
Telling them that they cant fit a prepay to recover debt and site the legislation
Tell them I will put something in the way to obstruct their smart devices.
Then have a WOIRA sign up.

brownowl wrote:Thanks, what part of the Electricity Act says that? What would you advise - to call up and pay them?

Schedule 6.

2(1)Where a customer has not, within the requisite period, [F2made all the relevant payments], the supplier may—
(a) install a pre-payment meter on the premises; or
(b) disconnect the premises,
and the supplier may recover any expenses incurred in so doing from the customer.

As far as advice goes, all we can do is make suggestions and provide background information so your decisions are made with your eyes open. Personally my electricity bills are paid as they fall due, but I have the luxury of sufficient cash to do that.  So in my case I'd rather do that then enter into a pitched battle.  Others, including some on here, seem to be happy with a lot of unpaid debt and are happy living effectively under siege.

Another background question, do you have assets for example equity in your house whether or not it's mortgaged?  That's another issue, what do you stand to lose.