Re: CCJ Issued (Arrow Global)

by waylander62 Thu Sep 15, 2022 11:28 pm

Dishra wrote:Will let you know how it goes once able to check.. chances are the claim form will have same address as judgement right and for whatever reason it just never arrived?

But as you say - main priority is to try and get this set aside (even if the thought of going to any form of hearing fills my partner with dread, there is no way around this). If able to get this set aside with the help of an EX160 form (to then fill out N244, for CCBC?), this would then open up some space and time to question the claim itself with Arrow as opposed to the solicitor (or even a chance to offer a notice of conditonal acceptance)?

if you can get this set aside then you have the opportunity to question the whole claim

Failing that, the judgement will need to be paid in full or in installments (if unable to do so in one lump sum)? Our concern here is that we still don't know what we're paying for exactly, but hopefully this is where CCBC can provide more light/detail.. as they should be able to confirm who the OC is?

CCBC wont confirm anything what they should do is provide a copy of the claim made against you that is about all, that should give you what you need though.

Can a SAR not be submitted to a data controller within any organisation regarding personal data held?

yes as long as they are the data controller of your data which in this case will be the claimant their solicitor may have copies of some of your data but nothing different to the claimant

Ideally I'm looking for the original CCA or any form of proof of claim, but by the sounds of it this can only be acheived if the judgement can be set aside (thus, establishing contact back with
Arrow/the designated solicitor)?

the claimant wont play ball with you because they dont need to they took you to court and won so unless you can get it set aside they likely wont communicate with you in these matters. However the OC can provide a huge amount of helpful information unfortunately we dont know who that is !!

No idea who the OC may be - have moved in the past few years so it could well have been sent elsewhere

this could be your saving grace do you remember more precisely when you moved ?

by Dishra Thu Sep 15, 2022 11:52 pm

1. 'If you can get this set aside then you have the opportunity to question the whole claim'
Where would one even begin with this? lol

2. 'CCBC wont confirm anything what they should do is provide a copy of the claim made against you that is about all, that should give you what you need though'
Apologies - the copy of the claim to hopefully provide more detail I mean, in terms of: OC, dates and addresses of corrospondence for instance?

3. Regarding 'SAR' - this means who ever technically owns (or has obtained) the source of the personal data held?

4. As for the 'claimant not playing ball' - is this why why if the claim can be set aside, they will be more inclined to communicate in terms of getting the matter resolved without CCBC? Surely they can just resubmit a new judgement once the old one has lapsed/been set aside? Guess we're hoping to spot some error on the claim form for any hope, but the claim form should bring more clarity in terms of OC (fingers crossed), otherwise.. eek!

by Dishra Fri Sep 16, 2022 12:42 am

daveiron wrote:Just a thought on this, I would send a DSAR to the claimant,it may have been
deliberately sent to a previous address or even an address you have never had.
Therefore getting a judgement by default.

Could I please check is this to Arrow as opposed the solicitors right? Had assumed the claimant may have been whoever was dealing with the claim (i.e. the solicitors as opposed to Arrow, but may be muddled here)

by waylander62 Fri Sep 16, 2022 12:51 am

needs to be to the claimant but again dont know exactly who that is, arrow have more than 1 company and yes it CAN make a difference

also the claimant may not be the company whom the solicitors are asking you to pay ....? this is where it gets complicated but can be important.

by **daveiron** Fri Sep 16, 2022 10:38 am

The reason i suggested a DSAR at this stage ,was it should establish to what
address correspondence was sent.

by waylander62 Fri Sep 16, 2022 11:13 am

daveiron wrote:The reason i suggested a DSAR at this stage ,was it should establish to what
address correspondence was sent.

that is true it could help to get the order set aside if it shows that any correspondence was sent to the wrong address.

could send that off straight away just a request for any and or all data held by the claimant to include all letters sent by the claimant.

something does not sit right with this case.

It is hard to believe that the OP received no correspondence from the claimant whatsoever nor their acting solicitor nor the claim form itself. Yet received from the court a judgment by default notice and a letter from the solicitors asking the judgment be paid.

by Dishra Fri Sep 16, 2022 2:45 pm

Indeed - let's see what comes back from the SAR via claimant, if they can provide copies and/or any further light as to what this relates to then that will certainly be a start!

Anything else worth requesting here/anything missed.. or may it even be worth asking the solicitors for a copy of their initial corrospondence before they followed pre-action protocol? CCJ Issued (Arrow Global) - Page 2 1f64c

CCJ Issued (Arrow Global) - Page 2 1f64c

by waylander62 Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:11 pm

in my opinion send a SAR to the claimant now

and a call to the court today would have been a good idea, without a copy of the claim form you have nothing much to go on and the longer it goes on the less likely you will be getting any judgment set aside.

by Dishra Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:07 pm

Will prepare the SAR for claimant and send ASAP recorded/signed for.

Assuming once lodging the N244 - the above SAR can be included, to inform the court that this is ongoing in order to validate the alledged liability before negotiating any terms here?

Did call the court and was on hold for over an hour, as to which the line was cut off and they had closed.. lol

Thanks waylander62, any help clarifying some smaller details above would be much appreciated CCJ Issued (Arrow Global) - Page 2 1f600

CCJ Issued (Arrow Global) - Page 2 1f600

by waylander62 Fri Sep 16, 2022 11:16 pm

Dishra wrote:Will prepare the SAR for claimant (creditor listed on judgement) tonight and send ASAP recorded/signed for.

Have also been advised that specific details can be included within the request, to include any corrospondence/notices sent (prior to the judgement being made) as well as the personal information held.. can the original signed contract/agreement also be requested here (as we've no idea what this relates to)?

If they have a copy of the agreement they should send it but i very very much doubt they will have, be careful when asking for specific things because they may well ask for more time ( up to 3 months ) which will screw you right up. the purpose of this SAR is simply to obtain letters with an address on it to check if they have been sending them to a different address nothing more really at this stage.

May it be worth mentioning at the bottom also (as have seen unhelpful replies with such requests from various claimants across several forums), in order to hopefully stress the need of providing all the requested info?:

- FCA CONC 7.2 (i.e. vuleranble due to unemployment with severe anxiety/stress)
- CPR 31.14 (to obtain copies of docuements via claimant, which they intend to rely on for bringing the case)
- Fraud Act (2006):
a) dishonestly fail to disclose to another person information which he is under a legal duty to disclose, and
b) intends, by failing to disclose the information—
i. to make a gain for himself or another, or
ii. to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss

no not really because you are not asking them to disclose anything nor are you asking them for documents which they rely upon in a SAR

Also with my name as per 'x of the family: x', signed yours faithfully/without prejudice

i would not sign off like this definitely and would not use without prejudice ?

Assuming once lodging the N244 - the above SAR can be included in the N244, to inform the court that this is ongoing in order to validate the alledged liability before paying/negotiating any terms here (as per the 'application notice')?

possibly but again i will repeat the SAR is not to validate the alleged liability

Did call the court and was on hold for over an hour, as to which the line was cut off and they had closed.. lol

Thanks waylander62, any help clarifying some smaller details above would be much appreciated

by Dishra Fri Sep 16, 2022 11:53 pm

eek - we had drafted a letter but now having second thoughts. But you make a valid point.. short and sweet is key here (as for the correct terminlogy around 'disclosure') CCJ Issued (Arrow Global) - Page 2 1f44d

CCJ Issued (Arrow Global) - Page 2 1f44d

Slightly reluctant to log the N244 untill able to check letters received, as surely this will affect outcome here?

by waylander62 Sat Sep 17, 2022 1:04 am

Dishra wrote:eek - we had drafted a letter but now having second thoughts. But you make a valid point.. short and sweet is key here (as for the correct terminlogy around 'disclosure')

Is it worth signing over 'all rights reserved' so they cannot use it elsewhere, as for sending a copy of the SAR to the solicitors also to ensure its picked up and logged?

Slightly reluctant to log the N244 untill I can confirm any anomalies with any letters received, however thinking in the meantime to call the court and inform them of this? As surely this will affect the application notice and/or defence provided?

i wouldn't log an N244 yet anyway until you have a copy of their claim as you can't possibly know what they are saying in their claim or what the debt even is !! an N244 needs a good reason as to why it should be set aside the ' i didn't receive the claim form ' might not be enough.

you are overthinking the SAR just send a request to the claimant a simple request for them to provide all of your data they hold as per the DPA to include copies of any letters they have sent to you. you can send a copy to the solicitors if you wish but i certainly wouldn't it is none of their business.

and get a copy of the damn claim form.

by Dishra Sat Sep 17, 2022 1:12 am

Of course (sorry again) - as for the prior claim forms, these were never received.. thank you so much for drilling it in CCJ Issued (Arrow Global) - Page 2 1f605

CCJ Issued (Arrow Global) - Page 2 1f605

Will obtain claim forms and send SAR, IF it can be proven an old/incorrect address was used to send comms in relation to passing the matter across to their solictors (without sufficient pre-action protocol).. this should be sufficient in terms of setting aside? Really, really appreciate all of your help (would have struggled otherwise) CCJ Issued (Arrow Global) - Page 2 2764

by Dishra Sat Sep 17, 2022 2:57 am

daveiron wrote:Just a thought on this, I would send a DSAR to the claimant,it may have been
deliberately sent to a previous address or even an address you have never had.
Therefore getting a judgement by default.

Please can I check why the SAR is even requested in the first place (generally), excluding the circumstances above.. unless this is solely the reason why, or to put a hold on any enforcement action/establish contact with their legal and compliance team?

by **daveiron** Sat Sep 17, 2022 9:31 am

Dishra wrote:
daveiron wrote:Just a thought on this, I would send a DSAR to the claimant,it may have been
deliberately sent to a previous address or even an address you have never had.
Therefore getting a judgement by default.

Please can I check why the SAR is even requested in the first place (generally), excluding the circumstances above.. unless this is solely the reason why, or to put a hold on any enforcement action/establish contact with their legal and compliance team/put them in dishonour?

Please just follow waylander on this,he is the go to guy if things reach this stage.
The stuff i put on the site is designed to stop things before they reach this stage.
There are many reasons for a DSAR ,i would suggest you research further after
this matter is sorted,too much info now will only cause you to over think things
as waylander suggested.

by **Mrblue2015** Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:34 am

daveiron wrote:Just a thought on this, I would send a DSAR to the claimant,it may have been
deliberately sent to a previous address or even an address you have never had.
Therefore getting a judgement by default.

Example ,after seeing off 3 DCs & 1 solicitor the alleged creditor has passed it to yet another DC .Despite the OC having been in regular contact at my address since
2006 ,this new DC started sending letters to my former business address which
i retired from in 2014 & the OC had never been given that address.To me that is
very clear they did not want me receiving them.

Just a thought.

DI raises a good point. And what is implied here, is that DCs are sneaky b@stards. I wouldn’t even call them human beings.

by waylander62 Sat Sep 17, 2022 3:29 pm

dishra

a sar is in most circumstances used for the original creditor and not the dca to see what information they hold in respect of your account and can give you a heads up as to what evidence the DCA can obtain.

this in a nutshell is where a SAR can be helpful

you are in a whole new arena and your SAR is predominantly to find out if the claimant have been sending correspondence to the wrong address.

to set aside a judgment is never easy and it may be a great help to see what letters you would or should have received and to where these letters were in fact sent. that is all really.

if you cant get the judgment set aside for whatever reason anything else is useless at this stage.

you have to remember they have taken you to court and won if you haven't received any letters or the claim form and can reasonably evidence this then it should be set aside, so concentrate on getting it set aside and nothing else.

you dont even know who the OC was or what the debt was for yet.

by Dishra Mon Sep 19, 2022 11:38 pm

Thanks for everyones input here, so grateful.

Which way would be best to sign any SAR requests off to OC/DP/DCA (as for name in top right hand corner above address - assuming no. 1 as they will need these for identification, as for verification regarding the SAR request)?

1) Yours faithfully,
'First & Last name'

2) Yours faithfully,
*Signature*

Authorised agent & representative of FIRST & LAST NAME

by Dishra Tue Sep 20, 2022 3:16 am

Also - could it be worth speaking to their solicitors to explain the situation (i.e. that claim forms are en route as for SAR with OC)? A little reluctant to share any information with them at the current stages, in case they use it to their advantage with any sneaky tricks played.. but at the same time they may agree to consent for setting it aside in order to reduce the fee? Just don’t want them trying to take any enforcement action prior to receiving claim forms/SAR doc’s

by **daveiron** Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:43 am

Just sign it as you would any letter,and get it sent asap RM signed for.
Personally i would not contact their solicitor .

by waylander62 Tue Sep 20, 2022 12:26 pm

Dishra wrote:Thanks for everyones input here, so grateful.

Which way would be best to sign any SAR requests off to OC/DP/DCA (as for name in top right hand corner above address - assuming no. 1 as they will need these for identification, as for verification regarding the SAR request)?

1) Yours faithfully,
'First & Last name'

2) Yours faithfully,
*Signature*

Authorised agent & representative of FIRST & LAST NAME

Need to send these tomorrow/ASAP so any help would be much appreciated - thank you so much.

just sign it in the account holders name of the debt as i said before authorised agent etc etc wont help you now it will only hinder you

and get a copy of the claim form which is just as important as the SAR if not more so

by waylander62 Tue Sep 20, 2022 12:33 pm

Dishra wrote:Also - could it be worth speaking to their solicitors to explain the situation (i.e. that claim forms are en route as for SAR with OC)? A little reluctant to share any information with them at the current stages, in case they use it to their advantage with any sneaky tricks played.. but at the same time they may agree to consent for setting it aside in order to reduce the fee to £100 as opposed to £255? Thought this may help with any repayment if required later on down the line, but until the claim forms/SAR doc’s have been received it’s tricky to assess next steps.. just don’t want them trying to take any enforcement action prior to this?

ABSOLUTELY NO they wont want to help you set aside they will go for the jugular if they get the slightest sniff that you are going to try and set aside judgment they will start enforcement action within the hour.

the longer this goes on the less likely you are going to get anywhere.

as a matter of interest what is the date on the judgment by default letter sent from the court and more importantly the date of the order ?

by Dishra Thu Sep 22, 2022 11:06 pm

daveiron wrote:Just sign it as you would any letter,and get it sent asap RM signed for.
Personally i would not contact their solicitor .

The only reasoning for this was to stop any enforcement action, prior to receiving the SAR doc’s/setting aside in order to verify (via OC).

by Dishra Thu Sep 22, 2022 11:16 pm

waylander62 wrote: ABSOLUTELY NO they wont want to help you set aside they will go for the jugular if they get the slightest sniff that you are going to try and set aside judgment they will start enforcement action within the hour.

the longer this goes on the less likely you are going to get anywhere.

as a matter of interest what is the date on the judgment by default letter sent from the court and more importantly the date of the order ?

Makes sense - wanted to try and reason with them to prevent any enforcement action, as this could create more issues regarding employment (i.e. attachment of earnings order).. that was all.

As for date of judgement, this was around start of Aug (cannot see any other relevant dates on paperwork).. just really want to get the SAR doc’s prior to any further enforcement being taken (as reluctant to pay without any confirmation of what it is exactly).. thanks both Smile

by waylander62 Thu Sep 22, 2022 11:58 pm

oh dear you just aren't listening or reading the ONLY thing that will stop enforcement action is setting aside the judgment

they are NOT going to provide SAR documents before enforcement action, reluctance to pay before knowing what it is would be very foolish THEY HAVE WON IN COURT IT MATTERS NOT IF YOU DONT KNOW WHAT IT IS they have judgment against you
if a CCJ may jeopardise future employment then you have a real problem because you already have a CCJ against you ? they want their money and will do what they have to to get it.

beginning of August !! usually a court order to pay gives you 1 month to pay, maybe judgment by default doesn't put a time limit on it which is why they are chasing you.
AGAIN the best way to find out what this is was to GET A COPY OF THE CLAIM FORM

sending a SAR WILL NOT STOP ENFORCEMENT ACTION !!

if you had dealt with this from the beginning then you may have stood a chance of getting some information, by this i mean when you got judgment by default letter from the court, it has probably been close to 7 weeks since they won this case !!

i dont know what else to say

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