Counter Claims

I've noticed quite a few Claimants drop the Court Case just before the Court date when they realize they haven't got the correct paper work. Being threatened with a Court case is a very stressful experience and can be costly seeking advice and takes up valuable time to answer their threats. Could you at the very beginning when they send you a Court claim form do a counter claim for stress and costs relating to defending the claim, so when they drop the case the Court would have to look at your counter claim and rule on it. It might make them think twice about issuing unenforceable claims in the first place if they have something to loose.

In theory there's nothing to stop you, however:

To bring a Counter Claim you have to pay a claim Fee based upon the value of the Counter Claim you make.

Also, if the claimant applies to get your counter claim dismissed as being 'Without Merit' you could end up being stuffed for their costs, which may be greater than the claim brought against you.

Ok lol it was just a thought maybe not a very good idea then.

Jinxer wrote:Ok lol it was just a thought maybe not a very good idea then.

Litigation is a minefield, one false step and you're up to your neck in the other sides costs.

Hi guys

Jinxer - don't be so hasty to bin the idea fella, maybe look at it from another angle?

eg. Would it be possible to include a fee schedule as part of your original conditional acceptance letter? Or the second or third? That way it gets into evidence for free? And wouldn't render you liable for their costs.....

Cheers!

I am a little new to counter claims so forgive me if my questions seems obvious. How do you issue a counter claim, what is the process so I understand.
I thought when someone issues a claim your response could be to send in a counter claim to the court before the court date to challenge their standing, status etc., to invalidate or have their claim dismissed or have the judge address the points that you raised, see you now as a claimant and not purely a defendant.

Can someone enlighten me please as I have a case this month and would like to know how to complete a counter claim if necessary?

Thanks

Also can you submit a counter claim with an N244 application?

It's a good thread by all involved.

When we make a counter claim we are actually making a new claim and that is how it should be treated. It's your claim vs their claim and the judge has to decide which claim has the most merit.

If a claim is discontinued by the plaintiff or is adjourned for reasons not at the fault of the defendant, the defendant is fully entitled to apply for wasted costs and yes a fee schedule for those wasted costs could be applicable. In my experience with an adjournment it's the wasted costs for the day adjourned e.g solicitor fees that can be applied for, but there is no harm in requesting wasted costs for other work that is specific for that list day. If the case is discontinued by the plaintiff it's wasted costs and personally I would put in a few schedule, but I'm pretty sure in common law you can also go for damages, which is assessed without your attendance. Some of the more experience members in this area should be able to elaborate....

Thanks for your Information "Waffle." I am new to the forum and I find it very helpful thanks to you all.

For clarity, so the only way you can make a counter claim is to start a fresh claim by completing an N1 Form?

I have not completed an N1 form before. Is it a standard fee to complete one?
In your counter claim do you refer to the claim that was made against you or solely stick to your facts, and information?

What is the process for the judge to decide which claim to dismiss and can you challenge that decision?

Can you make a counter claim for a case that has already started in court and you have been to several hearings or can you only make one at the outset when the original claim is brought against you?

Hey the light, good to have you on board.

I'm not sure about the forms fees, someone else will be able to help with that.

Apparently I f you refer to their claim at all yours will be osolete. Apparently you can only refer to you claim.

There should always be an appeal process

It's very unlikely you can introduce a counter claim mid way through a case, hope this helps

Thanks "Waffle." It is a pleasure to be on board.
I am keen to learn about our rights to help myself and others after discovering the fraud, deception and sheer extortion that is going on. Especially in the courts! It has been shocking!
Your response is very helpful.

Has anyone here submitted a counter claim?

I am currently in court regarding a loan which Marlin Capital Europe Limited bought from Northern Rock Asset Management (NRAM). I have requested discovery and disclosure to view documents, namely the contract and deed of assignment, which have never been placed in evidence to date, which clearly give them no standing. The County Court at Central London have consistently not served me papers for hearings placing me at a disadvantage and have made judgements. I have a case this month and currently completing an N244 to have a judgement set aside for a hearing that they held on 19th September 2017 yet did not serve me any papers other than the final judgement last week. The final judgement is to place a charge on my parents house who have nothing to do with this case and my name clearly does not appear on the title at Land Registry. Nevertheless they are proceeding.

I had no knowledge of counter claims else I would have submitted one at the start. It has been a very steep learning curve learning about the banking practices and loans! However, I intend to fight them all the way.

The Light wrote:Thanks "Waffle."  It is a pleasure to be on board.
I am keen to learn about our rights to help myself and others after discovering the fraud, deception and sheer extortion that is going on.  Especially in the courts!  It has been shocking!
Your response is very helpful.

Has anyone here submitted a counter claim?

I am currently in court regarding a loan which Marlin Capital Europe Limited bought from Northern Rock Asset Management (NRAM).  I have requested discovery and disclosure to view documents, namely the contract and deed of assignment, which have never been placed in evidence to date, which clearly give them no standing.  The County Court at Central London have consistently not served me papers for hearings placing me at a disadvantage and have made judgements.  I have a case this month and currently completing an N244 to have a judgement set aside for a hearing that they held on 19th  September 2017 yet did not serve me any papers other than the final judgement last week. The final judgement is to place a charge on my parents house who have nothing to do with this case and my name clearly does not appear on the title at Land Registry.  Nevertheless they are proceeding.

I had no knowledge of counter claims else I would have submitted one at the start.  It has been a very steep learning curve learning about the banking practices and loans!  However, I intend to fight them all the way.

When you receive Claim Forms from the Court you get the opportunity to Counter Claim, you have to pay the counter claim fee within 28 days otherwise your counter claim is dismissed.

With respect to the claim made against you, if you didn't receive the claim forms you must IMMEDIATELY apply for a set aside (under Civil Procedure Rule 13) and a suspension of the charging order to allow you to properly defend against the claim, you must provide details of your defence - use form N244, it costs £255 or free if on benefits or low income.

Do not delay otherwise they won't grant the set aside.

Thanks for the helpful information Tiggy.

I am actually completing my N244 application now to have it in the post by tomorrow. The court has been consistently underhanded. The judgement states it was made on 19th September 2017 yet I only received it on the back end of last week.

The Light wrote:  The court has been consistently underhanded.  The judgement states it was made on 19th September 2017 yet I only received it on the back end of last week.

Hi, just a quick thought.

I have been looking at expertinallleaglmatters.com and there is mention in one of his videos (maybe on his Youtube channel) that in the event of a judgement against you, that on appeal in a county court you can request to see;

• Oath of Office of whoever presided over the case.
• Court Bonds (to prove it is an indemnified court)
• Judge’s bond.
• Oath of the Director/clerk of the court who is in charge of the building.

He further ventures that County courts require, "surety bonds, indemnity bonds & securitisations, judge bond numbers, surety bond numbers, fiduciary bond numbers, court bond numbers, fidelity bond numbers and judicial bond numbers". Trading without bonds and valid insurance is a civil and criminal offence.

Has anyone asked to see these in any of the cases that have progressed to court and to a judgement?

kingkotton wrote:

The Light wrote:  The court has been consistently underhanded.  The judgement states it was made on 19th September 2017 yet I only received it on the back end of last week.

Hi, just a quick thought.

I have been looking at expertinallleaglmatters.com and there is mention in one of his videos (maybe on his Youtube channel) that in the event of a judgement against you, that on appeal in a county court you can request to see;

• Oath of Office of whoever presided over the case.
• Court Bonds (to prove it is an indemnified court)
• Judge’s bond.
• Oath of the Director/clerk of the court who is in charge of the building.

He further ventures that County courts require, "surety bonds, indemnity bonds & securitisations, judge bond numbers, surety bond numbers, fiduciary bond numbers, court bond numbers, fidelity bond numbers and judicial bond numbers". Trading without bonds and valid insurance is a civil and criminal offence.

Has anyone asked to see these in any of the cases that have progressed to court and to a judgement?

I don't see how that would assist an appeal, on appeal you're appealing a point of law in the Judgment handed down (ie a point in law you believe a Judge got wrong).

So without seeing any evidence that the court is indemnified, the judge is acting on oath and other requirements listed above you accept the judgement?

expertinalllegalmatters.com suggests these judgements are not actually signed by judges or magistrates below Crown Court level because they don't have these bonds and indemnities in place and that to do so is a criminal offence on their behalf.

Does anyone have a signed judgement since 2008 to contradict this claim?

kingkotton wrote:So without seeing any evidence that the court is indemnified, the judge is acting on oath and other requirements listed above you accept the judgement?

expertinalllegalmatters.com suggests these judgements are not actually signed by judges or magistrates below Crown Court level because they don't have these bonds and indemnities in place and that to do so is a criminal offence on their behalf.

Does anyone have a signed judgement since 2008 to contradict this claim?

Orders are signed, they are retained by the Court as a Court of Record. I've seen orders being signed by a Judge on the numerous occasions I've attended a County Court. What you receive in the post is a copy of the order which doesn't have to be signed.

Thanks Tiggy, that's very interesting that you get only an unsigned copy of a document. On what grounds do you understand that the copy you receive need not be signed?

I have never been to a county court so I bow to your greater experience on what is routine and whether some of the 'advice' one can read is true in practice. I have one further question and then I think I may have hijacked this thread long enough. Apologies to those contributors if it has veered too far off track.

You say that;

I don't see how that would assist an appeal, on appeal you're appealing a point of law in the Judgment handed down (ie a point in law you believe a Judge got wrong).

So from this I recognise that you haven't seen anyone ask, or have not asked yourself on the numerous occasions that you have attended a county court to see any of the bonds or evidence of indemnity indicated above at an appeal stage.

Have you ever seen them asked for at any stage?

Cheers.

I would stick my neck out and say anyone who has asked for them things gets a very rude reply. I'm not saying it wouldn't work cause I wouldn't have a clue, but would be very interested in hearing from anyone who done this.

Hi kingkotton

i too am a fan of Steve, and what you are suggesting seems to be a valid approach in ensuring proper procedure was followed.

Also if the copy document isn't signed then it's not a true copy - how are we to know the original was signed if the copy isn't?

Cheers!

iamani wrote:

Also if the copy document isn't signed then it's not a true copy  -  how are we to know the original was signed if the copy isn't?

Cheers!

Hi Iamani,

My thoughts too. But that is why I ask on what grounds it is understood to be OK to accept an unsigned copy or be palmed off with a 'rude response', as Jinxer puts it. Hi Jinxer  

I am only back into reading about this whole thing in the recent few days to be able to understand the ramifications of receiving a claim via this so called Northampton County Court Business Centre that has no courtrooms, legally trained personnel and possibly no authority to issue documents of this kind.

The picture that is emerging to me is how you choose to present yourself. There is the live you, the flesh and blood live man/woman and then there is the parallel dead entity attached to you as an epithet and identified on the Birth Certificate in ALL CAPS.

You have the choice of representing the flesh & blood man/woman, say as in the Karl Lentz method, or representing the other corporate fiction as these processes suggest the moment you respond to the claim form.

My claim form is addressed to the ALL CAPS entity. The claimant is not a man or woman it is a corporation, an entity that only exists on paper. Were you to stand to argue the case against a 2D corporation that only exists on paper that corporation cannot itself speak, it must have a representative to speak on its behalf and that must be a person. So all communication from your corporate person to that corporate person must exist in 2D, i.e. on paper, which is why all the paper is asked for ahead of the person, and why if you say something that is not backed up on paper it will literally fall on deaf ears and not be heard. A 2D entity cannot hear the same way as it cannot speak.

Please appreciate that these are my initial investigations but they appear to be the fundamentals of knowing that there are two versions of you, and they want to engage the fictional epithet not the flesh and blood man/woman.

I have further investigation to do into the Karl Lentz information, so I will be getting to it.

Cheerio and stay strong everyone.

Hi kingkotton

i don't know how far down the path of realisation you are, and Karl Lentz was certainly an inspiration to me, but i don't think anyone gets anywhere without looking into ALL forms of law before taking 'T.H.E.M.' on, and the first one to look at imo would be commerce (if you want results).

If you haven't seen Troy's presentations on ceylon's various YT channels then i highly recommend that you do, it's eye-opening stuff.

You are spot on with the two different entities, and if you've not looked into the 'legal name' game and it's source (the birth registration) then you may wish to check out the 'CENSUS: Are you in their warehouse' thread on the 'other news' forum on this site for a good idea on its workings.

Cheers!

Thanks Iamani,

I have historically followed and tried to understand Winston Shrout on commerce, but found his form of communication somewhat impenetrable at the time, but maybe because I didn't have application for it back then, and revisiting it at this time may be better.

I will check out Troy ASAP.

Thanks

Tiggy wrote:

kingkotton wrote:

The Light wrote:  The court has been consistently underhanded.  The judgement states it was made on 19th September 2017 yet I only received it on the back end of last week.

Hi, just a quick thought.

I have been looking at expertinallleaglmatters.com and there is mention in one of his videos (maybe on his Youtube channel) that in the event of a judgement against you, that on appeal in a county court you can request to see;

• Oath of Office of whoever presided over the case.
• Court Bonds (to prove it is an indemnified court)
• Judge’s bond.
• Oath of the Director/clerk of the court who is in charge of the building.

He further ventures that County courts require, "surety bonds, indemnity bonds & securitisations, judge bond numbers, surety bond numbers, fiduciary bond numbers, court bond numbers, fidelity bond numbers and judicial bond numbers". Trading without bonds and valid insurance is a civil and criminal offence.

Has anyone asked to see these in any of the cases that have progressed to court and to a judgement?

I don't see how that would assist an appeal, on appeal you're appealing a point of law in the Judgment handed down (ie a point in law you believe a Judge got wrong).

Of course it will help - if they can't produce the material evidence of their bonds that's mean that they are just actors sitting in the room that it's not a real court!!!!
Why they didn't made defendant aware of the court hearing in time? There is something fishy going on!!!
Tiggy - stop pulling the wool over ppls eyes - are you on their side?!?!?!?    

Another thing is - is someone is claiming something on their letter it's as easy as to ask them for material evidence of their claim - and you have counter-claim. If they don't have any evidence that's mean that they are committing a fraud which is a crime as they want to extort money and/or property from you...

Just list all the claims that they are making on the letter and ask them for valid material evidence. In  the case of the mortgage it would be a valid agreement signed by both parties in wet-ink, at the same time it should be signed by two authorized officers of the bank/creditor or by a director in the presence of the witness. There is always witness required for the borrower's signature. You should request a valid material evidence to prove who was the lender - did the bank actually had the money before allegedly lending it to borrower to finance the purchase? Most of the time they create the deposit for the same amount simultaneously as the loan, just different account number - this is taken from Bank of England report on money creation!!!
They give us information - we just need to use it!

Money creation in the modern economy

Good luck!

I've asked many banks/ credit card companies for it and the debt collectors, and the outcome was that they are giving account back to the original 'creditor' as they don't have any valid evidence that the contract was signed in correct manner - they have no standing.

Tiggy wrote:

kingkotton wrote:So without seeing any evidence that the court is indemnified, the judge is acting on oath and other requirements listed above you accept the judgement?

expertinalllegalmatters.com suggests these judgements are not actually signed by judges or magistrates below Crown Court level because they don't have these bonds and indemnities in place and that to do so is a criminal offence on their behalf.

Does anyone have a signed judgement since 2008 to contradict this claim?

Orders are signed, they are retained by the Court as a Court of Record. I've seen orders being signed by a Judge on the numerous occasions I've attended a County Court. What you receive in the post is a copy of the order which doesn't have to be signed.

That's a heresy - how could you believe the 'copy' that is not signed?!?!?!?! Is that some kind of a joke, Tiggy ?!?!?!?
I'll send you a letter saying that you owe me £1000000 but I'll not sign it. IF you pay - it's my gain. If you ask me to prove my claim - I'll say: "The letter is not signed, I didn't authorized it - it was sent by mistake." the case is dismissed. But if I sign it and you ask for valid material evidence of my claim which I don't have then I'm liable for my accusation and you have an opportunity to take me to the court to make the matter straight.

Every letter and document have to be authorized but correct person/officer who has adequate position in the corporation to be able to do so! He is then liable for what it says on that letter/document.

Common sense guys!!