Cabot Credit Management Group help needed please

by oldernotwiser Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:17 pm

Had a exchange of three letters with Cabot in July last year and thought they had gone
but like a bad smell they have just popped up with this letter.
They also included a full photocopy of every payment and charge etc uncertified no signatures or anything
Any observations or advice would be greatly appreciated

Attachments

: esa2.jpg You don't have permission to download attachments.(227 Kb) Downloaded 18 times

: esa3.jpg You don't have permission to download attachments.(170 Kb) Downloaded 12 times

: esa4.jpg You don't have permission to download attachments.(322 Kb) Downloaded 18 times

: esa6.jpg You don't have permission to download attachments.(210 Kb) Downloaded 16 times

by oldernotwiser Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:23 pm

Sorry not good with computers and could only think to add this to my previous post this way

by oldernotwiser Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:47 pm

Any one with some options on this and is this everything I asked for and enough for them to go to court. Really need help with this please. Do these documents look genuine and all the dates including across the bottom correct etc
I'm looking for mistakes or lies or both or anything I can use

by Little D Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:42 pm

Hey,

A a glance,

Firstly, they have not sent you a statement covering the period specified in letter esa1.jpg

Secondly, they cant send you a redacted copy of the default notice. (check your credit file for this date).

Have you acknowledged ownership of the alleged debt?, are they trying to get you to accept liability?.

by oldernotwiser Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:54 pm

I have not acknowledged ownership and yes I think they are trying to get me to accept liability which isn't going to happen. They sent me a copy of a printout of all payments and charges etc with no signature covering everything since the start up to date. I through 3 letter process and then sent them a letter before court action when they threatened asking for all documentation and that was last July heard nothing until now.
I noticed that they stated that they think it is now enforceable but then ask me what I think
I do not now if they have sent everything correctly that is requested
but something tells me they are unsure of themselves

by Little D Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:02 pm

If you have not already done so, then it seems like a possible solution is to check the date of the default entry on your credit file, they cant redact that as far as I am aware.

by Tiggy Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:49 pm

actinglikeabanker wrote:If you have not already done so, then it seems like a possible solution is to check the date of the default entry on your credit file, they cant redact that as far as I am aware.

You have to be careful with this, the default date on your credit file is normally the date you actually defaulted (ie stopped paying), which is different to the date of the formal default notice which is usually 3 months after you stopped paying but could be upto 12 months later.

That's why you can't use the default date on your credit file to work out a statute barred date, as the cause of action under the Limitations Act is the issue of the formal default notice, NOT the date you defaulted.

by oldernotwiser Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:51 pm

thanks Tiggy and @actinglikeabanker for the replies
Is there anything that I can pick them up on
why would they send me copies of anything with all details redacted as they are on things I posted. Also there are differing dates on the bottom of terms and conditions and do I have the right to ask how much they purchased this for and there are other things that they have not supplied as per my original request. They have taken a very long time to come back to me could that be a cause for concern that I can pick up on and is there anything that I should be asking for that is not part of what they have supplied
Thanks for all and any help

by Little D Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:06 pm

True but it is a start.

That said, the 'cause of action' on 'basic contracts' could also be from the specified date contained within the contract (if present).

It states under the t@c's (esa5.jpg/esa4.jpg),

'2, you agree (without prejudice to any other of our rights) to pay to us:
(a) the instalments specified in the key financial information sections overleaf;
(b) subject to the provisions of the consumer credit act 1974 the full balance of the total loan plus interest in the event of:
(i) failure by you to pay any of the instalments specified in the key financial information section overleaf within 14 days of the due date (time being of the essence).....'

Which could be taken as, they had the opportunity to collect the full amount 14 days after a missed payment, if no payment has been made since that date and they have not started collection proceedings then that was their choice, they had the option to within the contract terms.

According to my rough calculations, 3 years (from jan 5th 2009 - jan 5th 2012) of hypothetical payments of £156.66 would be £5,616, the total amount they are requesting is £7,588.01, the alleged original amount was £13,159.44. £13,159.44 less 3 year hypothetical payments would come out at about £7,543 which is about what they are asking for. If this stands true then they may have just missed the boat by a month-ish.

Time limits for recovering debts : https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/factsheets/Pages/time-limits-for-recovering-debts/statute-barred-debt.aspx

.....Unsecured credit debts

Unsecured credit debts are things like credit cards, store cards, personal loans and catalogues. When using the Limitation Act, these debts are often called ‘simple contract debts’.

The Limitation Act says that the limitation period for simple contract debts is six years.

The cause of action (when the limitation period starts running) for simple contract debts, is usually when your agreement says the creditor is able to take court action because you have fallen behind with payments. This will usually be after one or two missed payments. Sometimes, a debt will have no set repayment time. For these sorts of debts, working out the cause of action is more difficult.....

What does a "time is of the essence" contract provision mean, and will it be enforced? : https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/time-of-essence-contract-provisions-33345.html

Limitation Act 1980 : http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/58/contents

Consumer Credit Act 1974 : http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39

by oldernotwiser Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:14 pm

Thank you @actinglikeabanker
I will now try to get my brain into gear and look through all this information with a view to sending a reply

by oldernotwiser Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:35 pm

Okay have tried to read everything so can anyone tell me what my next move should be and how to proceed please ??????

by oldernotwiser Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:00 pm

Hi everyone
sorry to be a pain but can anyone tell me how to form a reply to this latest letter about this alleged debt and phrase it. I just don't seem able to get my head around it all but think i may be running out of time to strike back.

Thanks in advance for all help please

by Little D Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:07 am

Sorry oldernotwiser, I do not (intentionally) give any letter writing help, sometimes I will read a letter and offer 'reflection' but rarely, if ever write it for a person/people, this includes family/friends who want the reward without the 'self enriching' time investment.

My reasoning for this is that you are your own person with your own reasons/needs, I can not, and will not read documents, legislation to gain an understanding to then write letters for you. If you don't understand the information shared then someone like myself writing a letter for you is not going to help you at all and, will most likely come back to create more work for me in the future as replies etc get more complex in the battle of pen's. I do not do this for money, it is my free time.

Sorry that this may not be the answer that you are looking for but, there are some options above that could assist you if they make any sense, the legislation in the links is relevant to the options. Another possible option is printing the ideas off and seeing the free (free at point of service) solicitor at the CAB.

by oldernotwiser Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:59 pm

Thanks for that @actinglikeabanker
I understand what you are saying and am looking at it whit a letter in mind which i will send under my own steam. But thanks for the ideas.

by Little D Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:14 am

No worries, thank you for your understanding.

By all means, if you start to put something together I will try to offer some pointers if I am able to, just leave out any personal identifiable information.

Here are some tips on structuring formal letters that may provide some ideas to get you started,

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/writing-help/how-to-lay-out-a-letter

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Documents/Advice%20factsheets/Unclassified/how-to-write-a-letter.pdf

As I see it you have a number of options, in no specific order,

1, check the default date on credit file but consider the 7th post above re: default notice.
2, depending on the default date from last payment the 9th post above may assist you.
3, continue with the 3 letter approach and re-requesting the details they have not sent you e.g. an un-redacted copy of the default notice, that just smells off to me as I cant see any reason why they would want to hide that from you if they are within any statue barred period. Others have better experience with the three letters than me as I only used them once and it failed and I ended up with a ccj, this was my own fault however as I buried my head in the sand and ignored the letters they was sending after moving house so they got a ccj under a last known address.

by oldernotwiser Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:21 pm

Hi after sending then letter 2 of 3, I have now received the following covering letter with the documents it mentions.
I would welcome any comments on this and advice would be gratefully received. I think I need to be quick with a reply to this I think

Attachments

: mortimef clarke sains 2.jpg You don't have permission to download attachments.(523 Kb) Downloaded 16 times

by **daveiron** Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:55 am

Hi,
Is it the old or new 3 letters you have sent ? Also you require True copies of the originals ,not redacted ones.
There is a reason they have redacted ,& I believe it should become clear with unredacted true copies

by oldernotwiser Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:02 am

Hi daveiron
I am using new 3 letters and this was in reply to 2nd letter.
I also told them that the redacted default notice is not acceptable and should be a true copy without redactions which they appear to have just ignored. Should I send 3rd letter

by oldernotwiser Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:04 am

There is also a redacted copy of some sort of offer for an early settlement at the time

by **daveiron** Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:13 am

Yes carry on , Insist on all you have requested .Its very suspicious ,all of those redactions.

by oldernotwiser Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:30 pm

3rd letter sent emphasising the documents I require and emphasis on no copies being redacted so now we wait

Just received this reply to my third letter which also emphasised redacted copies of default notice and redacted copy of an offer which they claim to have made for early settlement which I never saw before and they just totally ignored the request for these to be true copies and not redacted and never even mentioned it. Have they sent everything requested in our 3 letters or am I imagining the fact that they have not.
This is letter I just received. What are your thoughts on this reply daveiron any ideas ?

Attachments

: mortimef clarke sains 3.jpg You don't have permission to download attachments.(238 Kb) Downloaded 16 times

by oldernotwiser Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:33 pm

Hi Daveiron
Any ideas on what I do now I've had the letter above.
Do I treat it as a letter before court action or do I tell them that I think this debt is statute barred as someone else suggested previously ?
Would appreciate any help

by **daveiron** Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:50 am

Hi ONW,

I still get the impression they are just trying it on, because of the tone of the letter & the redactions, I suspect its probably SB and they know it.

Found this from barnweb . On a personal level I would ask for more ,so I have decided to incorporate this with additions
and post it for comments within a couple of days.

https://goodf.forumotion.com/t1831-info-new-civil-procedure-rules-pre-action-protocols-introduced-october-2017?highlight=pre+action+protocols

by mattyb Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:29 pm

Did you ever send a formal S77 request to cabot along with the £1 fee? This is a powerful tool and from what you have uploaded they have not complied because there would be terms and conditions at inception and terms and conditions at default.

The whole statute barred debate is still being discussed but for a fixed term loan I have heard either the remedy date of the DN or even when the loan was due to finish.

However the fact they do not have the DN is interesting, they clearly don;t have it as they have used someone elses and redacted it.

Also if that was all they sent for the DN, even if they hadn't redacted it there are bits missing such as the wording about including the OFT leaflet etc

by oldernotwiser Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:40 pm

Thanks for your reply mattyb

I have not sent a formal S77 request where would I get S77 from and would I send it to Cabot or to Mortimer Clarke

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