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Moon phases


Energy company switched me to a different company without consent or contract.

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Energy company switched me to a different company without consent or contract. Empty Energy company switched me to a different company without consent or contract.

Post by volgabulghar on Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:26 pm

Hi all,

Not sure if anyone was with economy energy... They went bust and we were automatically without a choice switched to OVO who had higher rates. We were not able to switch to a different supplier for over a month. Just received an energy bill for that term with OVO - double the price we would normally pay.

Does this fall into the same category as the 3 letter process for DCAs as they passed on our details to a third party to whom we had no contract and signed nothing? I know they aren't a debt collecting agency but we never wanted to be with that company and they have charged us more than we were willing to pay.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

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Post by flyingfish on Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:27 am

I suspect somewhere in the small print either of the original supply agreement or in legislation you will find that OFGEM have the power to transfer the accounts from a failing supplier to another of their choice.  That happened to us when Irisa went bust last year.  The alternative would be to cut off the supply, which after all is what happens if other sorts of suppliers go bust - they stop supplying.
OFGEM information here .. https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications-and-updates/supplier-last-resort-revised-guidance-2016
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications-and-updates/ofgem-appoints-ovo-energy-take-customers-economy-energy

However I don't see how that gives them a right to charge what they like.  If you've now switched to your chosen new supplier, and OVO think you owe them money then it might be worth offering to settle for the prices you would have paid the new supplier.

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Post by LionsShare on Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:45 pm

flyingfish very true.

if you research gas act 1986 & elect act 1989 in there is to the effect, "the supplier must connect to the transmission network when requested..."

you have the right to be connected, so if a supplier goes bust I would think they cannot simply cut you off unless the property is empty, which the water will certailnly do if the bill is not discharged.
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Post by assassin on Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:23 pm

OFGEM do connect you to a supplier and this is a part of the energy company licensing conditions, they claim that if an energy company goes bust they will switch you so your supplies are not interupted, but they cannot guarantee the same tariffs or rates. They claim they try to get the nearest price to your existing tariff as possible, but cannot guarantee this and this gives the customer time to switch to another supplier.
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Post by volgabulghar on Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:34 pm

@LionsShare wrote:flyingfish very true.

if you research gas act 1986 & elect act 1989 in there is to the effect, "the supplier must connect to the transmission network when requested..."

you have the right to be connected, so if a supplier goes bust I would think they cannot simply cut you off unless the property is empty, which the water will certailnly do if the bill is not discharged.

They will cut off my water if I do not pay the bill? I thought that was against human rights?

Thank you Lionshare, Assassin and FlyingFish... i think i probably does say somewhere in the small print that they can switch me, didn't get much choice in the matter.

I have switched automatically from Economy Energy to OVO, i checked the rates and switched to another supplier, Octopus but i could not switch for 28 days because i had just come on board OVO (which was unfair as it was not my choice to switch to OVO). I also was not told of the switch for a couple of weeks and so ended up with 6 weeks on OVO, rather than 28 days.

I have a bill of almost double what I would normally pay which i think is unfair. They did not do a good job of switching to a company with the same rates...

Thanks

I have asked for a joint giro slip anyway. I think I will have to write a complaint of some sort to see if they can match the old tariff.

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Post by assassin on Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:39 am

Its in the supplier licensing conditions for them to trade and not in the suppliers contract with you, the licence to supply is between the energy company and OFGEM and this allows OFGEM to switch all the customers of a firm which goes bust.
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Post by flyingfish on Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:59 am

@volgabulghar wrote:I have switched automatically from Economy Energy to OVO, i checked the rates and switched to another supplier, Octopus but i could not switch for 28 days because i had just come on board OVO (which was unfair as it was not my choice to switch to OVO). I also was not told of the switch for a couple of weeks and so ended up with 6 weeks on OVO, rather than 28 days.
Can you confirm that you have now switched, so OVO is no longer your supplier, but that they say you owe them money?   If that's the case you are in a stronger position, for example a supplier can block a switch if the account is in default, but if you've already switched then that's too late.  I'm pretty sure they can't force a prepay meter either, since they're no longer the supplier.  
@volgabulghar wrote:I think I will have to write a complaint of some sort to see if they can match the old tariff.
I can't see you getting anyone to match the tariff from the original and no longer trading supplier.  I think you should focus on one of two possible complaints, and appropriate settlements --
Best case - your complaint is that you got shifted to an expensive supplier rather than your own choice - your proposed settlement would be to pay OVO at Octopus prices.
Fallback - your further complaint is that mismanagement delayed your final switch to Octopus, your proposed settlement would be to pay for that delayed period at Octopus prices.

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Post by LionsShare on Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:55 am

@volgabulghar wrote:

They will cut off my water if I do not pay the bill? I thought that was against human rights?

Read schedule 4a water Act 1991 about not getting cut off. As stated water can really be cut off for an empty house I know this from experience.
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Post by volgabulghar on Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:57 pm

@flyingfish wrote:
@volgabulghar wrote:I have switched automatically from Economy Energy to OVO, i checked the rates and switched to another supplier, Octopus but i could not switch for 28 days because i had just come on board OVO (which was unfair as it was not my choice to switch to OVO). I also was not told of the switch for a couple of weeks and so ended up with 6 weeks on OVO, rather than 28 days.
Can you confirm that you have now switched, so OVO is no longer your supplier, but that they say you owe them money?   If that's the case you are in a stronger position, for example a supplier can block a switch if the account is in default, but if you've already switched then that's too late.  I'm pretty sure they can't force a prepay meter either, since they're no longer the supplier.  
@volgabulghar wrote:I think I will have to write a complaint of some sort to see if they can match the old tariff.
I can't see you getting anyone to match the tariff from the original and no longer trading supplier.  I think you should focus on one of two possible complaints, and appropriate settlements --
Best case - your complaint is that you got shifted to an expensive supplier rather than your own choice - your proposed settlement would be to pay OVO at Octopus prices.
Fallback - your further complaint is that mismanagement delayed your final switch to Octopus, your proposed settlement would be to pay for that delayed period at Octopus prices.

I can confirm I am no longer with OVO. I was auto switched from Economy Energy. Waited 6 months for a final bill. Bill states I was on OVO for 4 weeks, but on calling they say they supplied for 6 weeks, hence the bigger fee, they also have higher prices. I switched to Octopus as they had better prices. Still waiting for a final bill from Economy energy so could be more to pay.

I think I will go with the complaint you suggested flyingfish - paying OVO at octopus prices. I am not going to be in a rush to settle as they took 6 months to send the bill. I think it has been poorly managed. I will let you know how it goes.

Noone is chasing me yet so I will wait for them to contact me and raise my complaint.
Thanks for help

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Post by volgabulghar on Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:58 pm

@LionsShare wrote:
@volgabulghar wrote:

They will cut off my water if I do not pay the bill? I thought that was against human rights?

Read schedule 4a water Act 1991 about not getting cut off. As stated water can really be cut off for an empty house I know this from experience.

I am living in my house so schedule 4a says

Premises that are not to be disconnected for non-payment of charges

Annotations: Help about Annotation
Amendments (Textual)
F1
Sch. 4A inserted (30.6.1999) by 1999 c. 9, ss. 1(2), 17(2), Sch. 1
1(1)Any dwelling which is occupied by a person as his only or principal home.
(2)In this paragraph “dwelling” means—

(a)a private dwelling-house (which may be a building or part of a building),

(b)a caravan within the meaning of Part I of the M1Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960 (disregarding the amendment made by section 13(2) of the M2Caravan Sites Act 1968), or

(c)a boat or similar structure designed or adapted for use as a place of permanent habitation.

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Post by LionsShare on Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:51 pm

there you have it, a little research & you have the answer.

Do you feel happier about this?

Watch out for the dwelling house! it may be the Irish equivilant of a composite hereditament in this country for council tax - commercial premesis.

THEY CANNOT CUT YOU OFF! So don't worry!

All we need is the same for gas & leccy & get rid of pre pay meters & we're done finished! as it should be for non-commercial premasis, sign that giro & off we go!

The part of the system thats suppose to work for us & not against!
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Post by assassin on Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:10 am

How much credit do you have and has this been transferred by the receivers as they are often slow to pass the paperwork over so you know how much credit you have?
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Post by volgabulghar on Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:46 pm

Hi sorry for late reply...
I have been deep into my legislation research regarding council tax.. e.g. fraud act, companies act, bills of exchange. Takes a while to get my head around. Yes it feels good to do the research myself and figure it out... so i have no lawful obligation to pay council tax!


I have £100 credit with my current supplier (octopus) i still have not received a statement from the original supplier (economy).. Will that get passed on to the supplier who took over by default (ovo)

My current supplier will not give me a giro and they will charge me for late payments. Grrr.
Thanks

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Post by daveiron on Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:55 pm

I think Lions share will agree, you need to look at domestic & non domestic properties in relation to these.
Do research in that area.
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Post by LionsShare on Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:22 pm

@volgabulghar wrote:
I have £100 credit with my current supplier (octopus) i still have not received a statement from the original supplier (economy).. Will that get passed on to the supplier who took over by default (ovo)
generally when switching banks or anything like this then I would imagine the correct "value" would be too.

@volgabulghar wrote:My current supplier will not give me a giro and they will charge me for late payments. Grrr.
Thanks
constantly write to your supplier & state you are DOMESTIC & not commercial therefore issue me with a bill for a non-commercial agreement & in conjunction with the CCA 1974 sect 123.

That should be it! Another way might be to switch to the likes of NPOWER or SSE or EDF the bigger 1s do just that with me.

Hope this helps, as DI sates this is looking into commercail & non comm' properties.
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Post by flyingfish on Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:49 am

@volgabulghar wrote: I have £100 credit with my current supplier (octopus) i still have not received a statement from the original supplier (economy).. Will that get passed on to the supplier who took over by default (ovo)
According to Ofgem any credit on your original account (Economy) to be honoured by the default supplier (Ovo).  On a normal transfer, in your case Ovo to Octopus, the balance doesn't get passed on so if you have a dispute with Ovo then Octopus won't be involved.  Did you have a credit with Economy?

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Post by volgabulghar on Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:25 am

I am 6 months and waiting for a a final statement from Economy energy, and that is what i will tell ovo if they come knocking, as i am sure i do have credit with them. Hopefully then they can honour Ovo with the credit... then I am going to start writing to Octopus regarding the Consumer Credit Act1974 section 123 because i am not commercial therefore I shouldn't be being charged or persuade them to send out a joint giro credit, failing that switch to a company that sends giros. Can you recommend any other legislation to read up on?

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Post by flyingfish on Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:08 pm

@volgabulghar wrote:I am 6 months and waiting for a a final statement from Economy energy, and that is what i will tell ovo if they come knocking, as i am sure i do have credit with them. Hopefully then they can honour Ovo with the credit...
If they wait too long to issue the final statement they won't get anything anyway as they're not permitted to go back more than 12 months.

Regarding Octopus, are you sure that energy supply contracts fall under the Consumer Credit Act?  I would be looking at "Consumer Rights Act 2015" and "Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008"

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Post by LionsShare on Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:33 pm

@flyingfish wrote:Regarding Octopus, are you sure that energy supply contracts fall under the Consumer Credit Act?  I would be looking at "Consumer Rights Act 2015" and "Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008"
I have breifly looked at the 2015 Act but I always have used the CCA1974 sect 123 restrictions on taking negociable instruments, when pay by endorsement. Is there anything in there you have found that could be used by others in thier endeavours?
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Post by volgabulghar on Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:43 pm

Sorry, i was away. I have been badgering the energy company for that giro credit slip. Havent had time to look at the legislation yet as i am putting my efforts into getting my other debts wiped via the 3 letters.

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Post by LionsShare on Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:31 pm

be careful buying your own, after install THEY can & will probably apply for a warrant to fit pre pay, if you have paid by endorse also after install of your own if not registered.
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Post by 123 on Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:38 am

Similar circumstances, different companies (both the one that went bust and the one that was assigned by Ofgem).

Switch to requested energy supplier was also delayed meaning we had to stay with the Ofgem appointed supplier for about 1.5 months.

The Ofgem assigned supplier stated that their "tariff is only 3.5% more than the most recent [old suppliers] tariff." - not sure what tariff they refer to, but definitely not the one we were on before.

Low and behold that company's billing is such a mess, the first bill issued was for close to 5k for these 1.5 months when normal consumption for an entire year would be even less than 1/10 of this.

The second bill, which is currently in dispute, is still about 77% more than what would have been paid to the original supplier which went bust.

Since switching to another supplier of ones own choice, the payments are close to what they were before the Ofgem assigned supplier.

Customer services of the assigned supplier were equally a mess, despite promising, calls were never returned and they failed to sorted out the disputed bill as requested (i.e. credit from the previous supplier wasn't accounted for amongst others and obviously their tariff excessively expensive).

Now, 2 months further down the line without communication from that supplier, they seemed to have passed this on to a DCA who started chasing (going by the many negative reviews over the last 48+ hours) all customers who were transferred and have had outstanding final bills - including disputed bills.

Going by what has been commented above, the no consent or no contract aspect has no bearing, as Ofgem is entitled to move customers?

Would the 3 letter process help and breach of contract regarding the claim of 3.5% price increase vs effectively 77% increase?

What's the quickest way to get this resolved? - A complaint to the company is obviously useless and Ofgem suggested contacting the Energy Ombudsman, yet most of these type of ADR are ineffective and a time waste.

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Post by daveiron on Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:15 am

I would send by Recorded Delivery a letter to appointed supplier informing them ' The account is in dispute'
' I am not refusing to make payment ,and will make said payment upon production of an accurate
and correct bill '.

letter to debt collector; " This debt is in dispute . take notice ,any payment due to xxxxx will be paid to xxxx
directly and under no circumstances will any payment be made to you. Any further contact from you will
be recorded and ignored".

I presume you have a closing meter figure from your original supplier and an opening figure for your present
supplier ? If not demand them from those making the claim.
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Post by LionsShare on Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:36 am

Check out this thread:

https://goodf.forumotion.com/t3622-down-memory-lane

it may hold some good arguements espcially if they try to force prepay meters on you.
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