Council tax legality

by Jane G Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:08 pm

Hi,

Apologies if this isn't the right place to post on this...I'm new here ; ) I have a debt from a council tax overpayment, beginning of discussions with them. Anyone know of successful cases whereby people have proven council tax an illegal thing? I've seen lots online about it not being contractual but nothing concrete as yet. I don't have the money to pay a solicitor and can't make head nor tail of what I've read so far. Grateful for any pointers you might have.

Thank You!
Jane

by **daveiron** Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:59 pm

Welcome Jane G

Council tax remedy is something that requires a lot of research to master.

So for now its best to deal with the problem at hand.
I presume its CT benefits that have been over paid ?

Do you have copies of all paperwork to and from them ?
If it can be proved to be their mistake there is no obligation for you to pay.
If its shown to be your error ,it would be best to set up an instalment plan
Make sure its affordable to you despite what they claim they will accept.

At this stage i would suggest you send a Data Subject Access Request.
they must comply and you will receive all of the data they hold.This will
be forms, letters ,emails telephone calls etc.If your original application
was correct and any changes of circumstancies notified by you .anything
else will be their error. ( a DSAR is free)
Send this to the council

"This is a Data Subject Access Request.
Under the Data protection act 2018 please supply any and all data that
xxxxxx Council hold on me . This is to include but not limited to all
telephone calls,emails whether internal or external ,letters and memo's .
I require the information be supplied within the statuary 20 working days
provided."

Observation Deck is presently working on council tax remedy & is due to be
published shortly.

by Mrblue2015 Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:02 pm

I had a friend who challenged a council tax bill, and he did it the right way. We know he did it the right way, because the council couldn't justify the bill. The problem is, they simply sold it to a debt purchaser...

by skunkpussy Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:39 pm

Mrblue2015 wrote:I had a friend who challenged a council tax bill, and he did it the right way. We know he did it the right way, because the council couldn't justify the bill. The problem is, they simply sold it to a debt purchaser...

Do you know the approach he took to get this remedy?

by Mrblue2015 Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:42 am

There was no remedy. As I said, the alleged debt was sold onto a debt purchaser. That’s not a remedy, it just shifted the alleged debt from one organisation (the government) to another (private commercial).

by skunkpussy Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:35 pm

Mrblue2015 wrote:There was no remedy. As I said, the alleged debt was sold onto a debt purchaser. That’s not a remedy, it just shifted the alleged debt from one organisation (the government) to another (private commercial).

You wrote "I had a friend who challenged a council tax bill, and he did it the right way". If "he did it the right way" then is that not a remedy regardless if it was ignored?

by Jane G Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:47 pm

Thank you for the welcome and also such a comprehensive reply. Yes CT support overpayment. I called the FWP at the time to make a change and felt certain id called the Council also but they have no record ord of it and I'm unsure how i could prove it myself. I'm progressing inasmuch as completing forms and made offer following advice from StepChange to deal with problem at hand (thank God for them!) as you also say. I do want to find out if the tax itself can be challenged, ive seen so much about it but nothing conclusive and yes it is indeed not an easy one to workout, certainly over my head. What is observation deck?

daveiron wrote:Welcome Jane G

Council tax remedy is something that requires a lot of research to master.

So for now its best to deal with the problem at hand.
I presume its CT benefits that have been over paid ?

Do you have copies of all paperwork to and from them ?
If it can be proved to be their mistake there is no obligation for you to pay.
If its shown to be your error ,it would be best to set up an instalment plan
Make sure its affordable to you despite what they claim they will accept.

At this stage i would suggest you send a Data Subject Access Request.
they must comply and you will receive all of the data they hold.This will
be forms, letters ,emails telephone calls etc.If your original application
was correct and any changes of circumstancies notified by you .anything
else will be their error. ( a DSAR is free)
Send this to the council

"This is a Data Subject Access Request.
Under the Data protection act 2018 please supply any and all data that
xxxxxx Council hold on me . This is to include but not limited to all
telephone calls,emails whether internal or external ,letters and memo's .
I require the information be supplied within the statuary 20 working days
provided."

Observation Deck is presently working on council tax remedy & is due to be
published shortly.

by **daveiron** Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:37 pm

The problem with challenging CT is that they take it to a fake court.
In fact its a room in a court that they hire along with a magistrate .
Halsburys Laws of England,which is the definative book on English law
states magistrates & county courts are not courts and can never be so,
they are nothing more than administive hearings.
Observation Deck is a you tube channel ,lots of great info there.

Send that Subject Access Request ,you never know they may have
that recording.

With recording phone calls ,a few years ago i invested in a 'true call' system
for my landline It was about £ 100 but has paid for itself many times over
in fact its providing evidence for a court case i have coming up

by Jane G Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:53 pm

Thanks for the pointer re observation deck I will check it out.
Interesting re the fake court...I recently saw a video of a an English freeman in Gloucestershire Court have you seen that clip? On this very subject, the false authorities.

Can you use phone recordings as evidence now? I know in the past they didn't deem it admissible evidence (on both sides) but there was small print that meant the jnfo therein could be used in some way i can't recall the detail.

I will delve into that subject access request. Very informative, thanks

by **assassin** Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:56 am

Yes you can record telephone conversations and use them as evidence if they are a real part of the case; previously they were often dismissed as they were not relevant and were other parties talking about the case and not directly involved in it.

They used the strategy of "hearsay evidence" which is true in a High Court case as it is not "first hand knowledge" and claimed they were operating under a higher court precedent.

by **assassin** Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:58 am

Can you use phone recordings as evidence now? I know in the past they didn't deem it admissible evidence (on both sides) but there was small print that meant the jnfo therein could be used in some way i can't recall the detail.

I will delve into that subject access request. Very informative, thanks

They transcribe it onto paper and it is read out.

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