Mail Fraud

by Kestrel Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:49 am

Would a specific area on the site dedicated to mail fraud be an idea? I've only recently started researching this & it appears to a regular occurence from many organisations, to date the following post here appears to be the only one to address it 'Replying to post box addresses'

by **assassin** Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:29 pm

We can make it a locked topic in the resources section so it will remain as a source of information available to all site members. If we give each topic its own section it will mean the site is overrun with topic sections and difficult to manage, and impossible to moderate.

by Kestrel Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:16 pm

[quote="assassin"]We can make it a locked topic in the resources section so it will remain as a source of information available to all site members. If we give each topic its own section it will mean the site is overrun with topic sections and difficult to manage, and impossible to moderate.[/quote

I understand what you say, i was thinking more so a set process could be established from available information & put up as the '3 letters' are, as dealing with 'Mail Fraud' appears it could be a buffer zone to the likes of DCA's etc from what i've looked into or more to the point others who are more enlightened on this topic have provided information for.

It was just a thought hence the message.

by Lansdowne Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:54 pm

You want to be careful using the expression "Mail Fraud". There is no offence of mail fraud in GB or most other countries as far as I know. That is an American expression and it arises from the fact that most crimes are dealt with the authorities in the State concerned. One way the federal US authorities (FBI etc) can get involved is if any part of the crime involves the US Postal Service, that automatically allows the Feds to take an interest.
Of course there is no equivalent thing in this country and as the Royal Mail is privatized they have no official status, they just collect and deliver mail (or often fail to!) and make profits.

by Kestrel Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:20 pm

Lansdowne wrote:You want to be careful using the expression "Mail Fraud". There is no offence of mail fraud in GB or most other countries as far as I know. That is an American expression and it arises from the fact that most crimes are dealt with the authorities in the State concerned. One way the federal US authorities (FBI etc) can get involved is if any part of the crime involves the US Postal Service, that automatically allows the Feds to take an interest.
Of course there is no equivalent thing in this country and as the Royal Mail is privatized they have no official status, they just collect and deliver mail (or often fail to!) and make profits.

If you see the original post here the link shows how it is indeed fraud regardless of whether you wish to call it mail fraud, the poster made contact with Royal Mail to establish this then in turn reported it to the police i.e. via Action Fraud.

https://goodf.forumotion.com/t1030-replying-to-post-box-addresses#9254

by **daveiron** Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:32 am

Its all in here.

https://lettersblogatory.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/universal-postal-convention.pdf

by Candor Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:57 am

That PDF is interesting but it does appear to be concerned with international post, now I know the term international could be given for more than one interpretation but is this a Convention or Protocol that can bind domestic mail operators or those utilising said service ?

by **daveiron** Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:41 am

Hi candor,

I have not looked at it for quite some time now,however it was all covered at one of the Nottingham meets so its probably on one of the related vids .

by Kestrel Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:03 am

Candor wrote:That PDF is interesting but it does appear to be concerned with international post, now I know the term international could be given for more than one interpretation but is this a Convention or Protocol that can bind domestic mail operators or those utilising said service ?

All postal services throughout the world fall under the jurisdiction Universal Postal Union,Convention.

Take a look here:
https://goodf.forumotion.com/t1030p25-replying-to-post-box-addresses#9278

P.O BOX IS A NON CONTRACT VENUE. IF A COMPANY TRIES TO CONTRACT WITH YOU WITHOUT A PHYSICAL ADDRESS THEN THIS IS BREAKING POST OFFICE RULES AND IS FRAUD, 2006 FRAUD ACT SEC 2 (1) AND SECT 11 ALSO VIOLATING FEDERAL LAW BEACUSE OF THE USE OF THE POSTAL SERVICE.

by Guest Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:04 am

Hi guys

If you are interested in the postal/mail service and haven't checked them out, David Wynne Miller and Russell J Gould have an interesting take on the subject.

Cheers!

by Candor Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:31 am

Thanks Dave ...

Thanks Kestrel but I am not convinced at all

Here is why: Steven in the OP video cannot cite any law apart from a US Title code and refers to law and stuff, yeah that is really going to stick it to them that is.

Below that is a reference to the forgery Act and and non domestic mail, yet no interpretation check on what constitutes non domestic mail and the ejusdem generis rule being applicable or not.

The PO box is the interesting part and is in my view what we should explore, furthermore "a bloke on the phone at RM said" is not anything we can work with either - I think the intentions and motives are ok but just a bit more homework is needed on this one.

I would also urge caution with the David-Wynne: Miller stuff and his UK franchisee:- Mark-Kishon: Christopher I mean come on lets have some proper forensic research here and not a bit of internet hear say .

I wonder if after over three months later the Policia have actually done anything with his complaint ?

Lets face it, even if this private and confidential thing is on dodgy ground, what you going to do once the turd party interloper changes his envelopes ?

I mean come on...

by Guest Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:37 am

Hi guys

If they could just change their envelopes why have they not done it already?

Candor - are you saying Steve Mccrae's offerings have no merit?

Cheers!

by Candor Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:41 am

High eye am an eye

No I am not saying Steve Mac-crackers has no merit at all, in fact he has gleaned quite a bit from my favourite researcher FOC on UCADIA by the look of it, I don't dislike the guy either just his awful video presentations and babbling, its a pretty big sell for Heraldry as well if you can afford the 5K he is after for a coat of arms.

Lets get real Homie ..

by Kestrel Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:44 am

Just focusing on the PO Box address, take a look here:
http://www.completeformations.co.uk/using-po-boxes.html

Quote from that link:
Specifically Disallowed Uses of PO Boxes
"In situations where a PO Box is used for a company’s registered office, the post code provided must be that which relates to the actual location of the office and not that which belongs to the PO Box."

I know for a fact some DCA's are doing this & are also using third parties to send their letters & the third party is in a different part of the country.

by Candor Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:01 pm

cheers I will have a look

by Guest Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:32 pm

Hi guys

i suspect the rules on post are the same here as USA, but our lot hide it better - for good reason.

Candor - if you're wondering about non-domestic mail, perhaps it's specifically for non-domestic rated Houses or non-domiciled residents?

Cheers!

by Lansdowne Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:10 am

It is quite correct that a company's registered office must be a physical address. That's different from their mail centres which they use for communicating with customers. Often the registered office will be the HQ of their accountants or lawyers, so sending letters there it will cause delay, not sure what the court would say if you missed a deadline.

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