Essex & Suffolk Water

Hi all just in need of a bit of help if poss, I sent my bill back to Essex and Suffolk water endorsed with the three stamps national insurance number and non commercial agreement etc, this was sent back in April and to my surprise I received a letter from them dated 11th June!!!! stating that the bill has not been paid! what avenue should I now take as they have given me a deadline of the 25/6/18
Any suggestion/advice would be gratefully received
kind regards
Mark(sharpysparky)

Do you mind if i ask what exactly have they sent back?

lo no not at all, it is a payment reminder stating that the amount outstanding needs to be paid by the 25/6/18 or they will take steps to collect which may include legal action

if its just a reminder as oppose to all your origonal sent back then for me - just me from experience simply ignore it. OR you could write & tell them that:

On date ??? payment was made in the name of ??? for the sum of ??? & endorsed thus. If you (water Co) are disputing this I require full disclosure through evidence of accounting done through forensic accounting practices & show the debt exists & has not been sold, traded, or made the subject of an insurance claim

If on the other hand they have sent back your origonal paper work then watch the series of yt vids on paying by endorsemnet & send back a natorial protest - I did this back in march this year again after initially endorsed in April last year, was sent another bill for another period this year so sent the protest & not heard a peep since.

if it helps

https://goodf.forumotion.com/t1648-natorial-protest?highlight=protest

must add they have not sent back the original so I'm guessing they have already cashed the cheque!?

@ LionsShare, hi there been a while regarding this but have been busy with house renovation and life (you know how it is) an update so far:
still lots of letters going to and throw but the last letter said something like 'they will not enter into dialogue on my views on payment, as we are unable to agree! so we will arrange legal proceedings to be issued in due course, at which will give me the opportunity to establish my statement that payment has been made,before the district judge of the court'

Sharpysparky wrote:@ LionsShare, hi there been a while regarding this but have been busy with house renovation and life (you know how it is) an update so far:
still lots of letters going to and throw but the last letter said something like 'they will not enter into dialogue on my views on payment, as we are unable to agree!  so we will arrange legal proceedings to be issued in due course, at which will give me the opportunity to establish my statement that payment has been made,before the district judge of the court'

This is not too new for me to hear!

At this stage I would not worry too much so long as you have filled out properly the "Trans Cash" slip and not the commercial slip, then followed by the natorial protest all should be OK!

Was threatened myself with county court but they would have to prove thier case, had proof of posting plus the returned docs - section 42,43 BOE act1882. Nearly 2 years now water charge FREE!

Search for Archbold book of quotations on web & look for deliberation by lord diplock about - paraphrasing - "juducial conclusions much be based on the evidence brought before court" - something like that. Reasearch sections 3+4 of fraud act 2006, good read ("you are entitled to see...").

Don't think they will go to court especially county court because of that already stated.

also watch this channel over Yorkshire Water, & Npower

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT4kPbJJyV6OxraqwV42alw

just emphasise that trans cash is a commercial instrument! & becafeful of that in RED don't worry too much either we are still the credit!

https://www.chequeandcredit.co.uk/cheque-clearers/other-clearings/credit-clearing-and-bank-giro-credits

"Bank giro credits can also be found in the back of chequebooks and are used by customers to pay cash or cheques into their own bank accounts. In addition, they are used by banks to collect donations for charity appeals such as Children in Need. A joint giro credit is one that has been issued by a biller and it can be used to pay a bill either at a bank, in which case it will be cleared through the inter-bank credit clearing, or at a branch of the Post Office. The joint giro credit is addressed to Santander (UK) plc and has the words “TRANSCASH” printed on it, as well as the words “bank giro credit” and the money mark logo. As of 2018, joint giros are being phased out as Santander does not offer new joint giro accounts any longer. Any institution now wishing to use the Post Office as a bill paying facility has to include a bar code on either the statement or the BGC itself. As a result there is no need for the joint giro code line, Post Office bill payments are now automated at the counter."

where does it say the joint giro has to be accommpanied with a cheque/cash & why disguinguish between 2 types?

I know my spelling is... TYPOs

hi LionsShare, you make it sound so easy lol, I am worried about eir next move, I have notreplied to that letter they sent but defo filled out transcash slip and did send them the notice of protest,
if they are phasing out the joint giros this isn't going to work for much longer then is it?
thanks for your help thus far dude

Sharpysparky wrote:if they are phasing out the joint giros this isn't going to work for much longer then is it? 

Not strictly correct!

From above: " Any institution now wishing to use the Post Office as a bill paying facility has to include a bar code on either the statement or the BGC itself."

Think about it? we are still the credit & we still need compensating, so give us ALL properly bar coded & numbered CREDIT SLIPs we can use to carry on discharging these damn "public bills"!

So what do they look like? Don't know yet not had 1!

Just a small point to consider LS,

If I recall correctly ,people who tried this via the PO a few years ago reported that the PO would only accept them for making a payment ,presumably they do not understand the true nature of these slips. This would then call for the need to record yourself trying to make a payment,and that in its self may prove to be a problem.

Just something to prepare for in the future.

Yes very true daveiron.

If you watch the yt channel I posted earlier in this thread & find 1 vid where docker dawson actually signs the "debtors" cheque & sends that off it has no number under the bar code & yet still manages to I think get it "discharged" or accepted but he has his own Estate - that here is the clue.

It will be I agree insufficient to simply take the slip to a PO & hope to get it discharged with out extra cheque, unless possibly being able to speak to a post sub master who should be in the "know". There again 1 could always try to pay by endorsement?

For those behind the counter the word CREDIT might be miss leading for them as to the correct meaning.

Here is more food for thought.

As I posted in that link to the credit & cheque clearing company, if they actually stated (fat chance I know)  the way to identify what would be the equivilant bar code to represent "TransCash".

Sorry LS, I should have known you would have been on top of it.

You two guys are way ahead of me and I really need to do some heavy reading, I am so grateful that you have both been so informative, now I just need to find the post that liosshare is refering to and try n get up to speed, how long have you guys been studying/reading about this sort of stuff??
Many thanks again guys

Sorry lionsshare I had misspelt your user name in my last post, I am trying to navigate this site on my iphone and my thumbs are way too big lol

Hi sharpy,

Lionshare has the knowledge and experience on this ,I only have what i have picked up over the years and have never tried this. I would have used it for water ,but my water charges are included in my rent & now being retired I get housing benefit so dont pay rent anymore.
From what i understand ,you should be OK using this for water .It seems that gas / lecky may be problematic .
Paul Webster recons he has taken it as far as he can but is stopped by the corruption of the courts. (By the way he is now a presenter on Raconteurs news every Mon / tuesday evening ,worth watching).

Good luck to you being retired buddy hope you fully live life and enjoy every minute of it, thanks for the heads up with the Paul Webster thing I will have a google to find it, be interesting to see it, it was after watching him along with Ceylon on you tube I decided to have a go with the water thing, gas n lecky are going to be problematic and dont think I would even attempt it tbh
I am currently fighting baliffs on a bus lane ticket I got last year, another mine field but I am sick to death of these corporations have so much power over us (or at least think they have!)
Have you seen the John Harris (RIP) vids on you tube?
Exposed a lot of corruption and ended up with he’s life cut short (probably by the scum that run OUR country)

CONTRACT MAKES THE LAW.
If you do not have a contract, you are not obligated
to pay.....for frankenpiss.

@Sharpysparky; no worries.

@pitano1; becareful, implied contracts do exist in commerce because as you will have flushed after a dump, then the consideration (in this case water) has been used therefore water Co are entitled to be paid - receive consideration from you. When you say "CONTRACT MAKES THE LAW" that is corect to a point but as stated here the contract is I think implied so exists.

Take care & good luck to all with your Joint Giro Slips.

LS

@lionshare.
IF...you give your power of attorney to a muppet
ie....vote
THEN....you have an obligation.
regards.
piano1

@pitano1; see your point, off electoral role some 4 or 5 years so i suppose no obligation, also don't pay either after paying by endorsement!

LS

@Lionsshare, so does that mean that when my next water bill comes through (it is due any day now) that I should do the same again with the joint giro? Thats assuming that they havent already changed the slips

sharpysparky

Sharpysparky wrote:@Lionsshare, so does that mean that when my next water bill comes through (it is due any day now) that I should do the same again with the joint giro? Thats assuming that they havent already changed the slips

sharpysparky

yes do the same, so long as the payment dates are for a different period. Don't endorse the same again send it back in the same envelope & write on the actual top of the bill - "already paid on date ?". Don't get into reasons for this or that keep it short & sweet, i did after the last heard nothing since about April this year.

its unlikely you will get more through so quick. I did get a 2nd through but much later.

What to do if they start to threaten... All I did was to write a NOTICE-IN-WRITING titled as is... & give reasons here as to why its piad - joint giro being commercial instrument etc., if they want to go to court they must prove what they claim. & say you have your evidence etc., get them tp prove via forensic accounting practices a debt exists & has NOT been sold traded or made subject of an insurance calim. Any & all internall notes MUST be explained in full plain English. If they want your evidence say NO if they are claiming... they MUST prove 1st!

What you do is up to you, & watch out for TransCash.

What if the new comes through? Don't know at this stage as am not in a position to try anything. May be try a different approach & try the post office scenario already mentioned. If that fails then endorse, or follow what I posted about "docker dawson" on YT (proberbly the best, find the vid where he says he has NOT got his Estate yet).

That's all for now but to ponder on. The whole reason I think they are doing this with transcash is simply they don't want those in post office/banks or utility Co's to know what we do & to even confuse the whole joint giro issue.

LS

Bloody hell LS you know your stuff lol, when I did ask them for forensic accounting and if they were not going to accept my method of payment that I wanted the ORIGINAL document back! Get this they sent me a copy of the bill that according to them hasnt been paid plus my notorial protest lol not the joint giro as im guessing they had cashed it and no longer had it, they also credited the water account £50 because they said they took longer to reply than they should lmao (probably hoping that now it was only £70ish that I’d cough up)
Thanks for you help n tip LS I mean it from the bottom of my heart I really appreciate everything yav done so far.
Be lucky buddy
sharpysparky