Do creditors need to produce your original signed agreement?

by Stevro Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:50 pm

It would appear not...

'A creditor satisfies its duty under s78 by providing a
reconstituted version of the executed agreement, which
may be from sources other than the actual signed
agreement itself. In other words, the s78 copy does not
need to be a direct physical copy such as a photocopy.
Crucially, a creditor is not under an obligation to provide
a signed copy of the agreement. Many debtors had
been arguing that a failure to provide a signed copy
entitled them to escape their obligations under their
agreement, but in light of Carey, cases brought on this
basis will undoubtedly fail. '

https://www.mishcon.com/assets/managed/docs/downloads/doc_2412/BBA.pdf

Carey v HSBC [2009] EWHC 3417 (QB)

by **daveiron** Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:16 pm

I will say this once only.

The Carey case is a presumption .See how it works ?

by Mrblue2015 Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:18 pm

daveiron wrote:I will say this once only.

The Carey case is a presumption .See how it works ?

by Stevro Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:46 am

Agreed; it is indeed a presumption.

'In the law of evidence, a presumption of a particular fact can be made without the aid of proof in some situations.'

by mongoose Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:17 am

Dont forget the all important s127 for agreements prior Apr 2007.

by Stevro Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:22 pm

So a reconstituted agreement could still screw your case I take it from that.

There is a big difference in lack of original agreement meaning unenforceable and meaning a judge will happily take a reconstitution.

A bank will prove you used 'their' money in your account by using account statements and a copy of your contract. A technicality may raise a battle over other issues.

Let's hear a 'oh no they can't' from all those out there who owed over a million on their mortgage and used the original contract defence. I think the current total is zero.

This case is very interesting...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd2PYv_glNk

by mongoose Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:00 pm

quite the contrary.

But a debtor MUST state clearly in their defence

by Stevro Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:00 pm

mongoose wrote:quite the contrary.

But a debtor MUST state clearly in their defence

Makes sense.

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Do creditors need to produce your original signed agreement?

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