Re: Bank Giro Credit

by **LionsShare** Fri Oct 14, 2022 11:02 pm

flyingfish wrote:Nothing in the Act obliges anyone to accept a BOE as a form of payment.

When I had my Ltd Co I had a Memorandum of Association (some call it Memorandum of Association Articles which is WRONG) & in the narrative there was a section specifically stating about excepting, cash, BOE, bill of laiden, debentures, bonds etc I got the idea it was every form of 'IOU', so yes whilst perhaps morally they don't have to except... commercially if they don't sect42/43 kicks in, done deal.

Remember commerce is a world of fiction but consequences of taking & not taking part at the appropriate place & time are real.

by **LionsShare** Fri Oct 14, 2022 11:08 pm

FF also go on to companies house web site & download a set of basic Company Articles which gives out the aims of the company & what it is suppose to do.

They are very general but I think unless there is something specific that needs adding or deleting it forms the basis for any company in commerce irrespective of trade sector.

Memorandum of Association will be in there.

by **LionsShare** Fri Oct 14, 2022 11:29 pm

OWtothelight wrote:So getting it stamped and sent by the bank is the proper way to use it, but getting the bank to process it this way may prove difficult. The back of the statement, suggests this is the proper way, no mention of adding payment, fill in the form, get the bank to stamp it and send it in. .

when doing it with utilities & sending it back to them yes it should be settled but... I don't have full disclosure as to what actually happens so I can't really answer this question, OK I see where you are coming from but its really difficult to say as I am back to disclosure again. You may be correct in saying about being difficult at the bank, yes I totally agree.

OWtothelight wrote:The front has a black box to be filled with either amount stated on the cheque, underneath stating cheque acceptable, an area to sign and date underneath this, as you would a cheque, then under this there is a paying in slip area, presumably you fill in the cheque part of the paying in slip, with the amount you put in the black box? .

With any of these template BOE do NOT touch the front, that must be left as is. If you feel the need to write something then either on a separate piece of paper or on the back if there's room.

OWtothelight wrote:Th back of the statement also states that if payment is made using the wrong sort code, account number or reference information, there may be a delay before the account is credited or it may not be received at all. So does the endorsement method in this case invalidate the credit by writing over the reference number with our NI number?

If you are following other people from other sites as I have seen doing this type of thing then NO do not write over the that number. If you are using another template BOE from say another utility & trying what the likes of Deanne Maria Santini on telegram are doing it might work, I say might as I have not had to consider doing that.

If using a 'donor' template BOE then possibly blank paper correct size glued over it, with your NINO on the back as part of the narrative used that starts - Non Transferable. To.....

Remember the proof it works is the lack of evidence that comes back, if you see what I mean? They will never admit you are right, its the lack of info that comes back is the proof. This type of situation is NOT Debtor/Creditor its a Trust, end of.

by flyingfish Sat Oct 15, 2022 10:52 am

LionsShare wrote:FF also go on to companies house web site & download a set of basic Company Articles which gives out the aims of the company & what it is suppose to do.

Could you point me to the specific bit with a specific company's Articles that you are referring to? I note that the Model Articles don't even include the word "exchange". I reserve judgement until I see what exactly you are referring to, but would point out that a term allowing the company to handle Bills of Exchange is nowhere near the same as saying it compels the company to accept them as payment in all cases. Or you could take up my challenge, try to pay for your groceries in Tesco with a Bill of Exchange, then when that's not accepted try walking with the groceries out without further payment.

I've already pointed out the misunderstanding about sections 43 and 43 of the BoE Act.

by **LionsShare** Sat Oct 15, 2022 7:49 pm

flyingfish wrote:
LionsShare wrote:FF also go on to companies house web site & download a set of basic Company Articles which gives out the aims of the company & what it is suppose to do.
Could you point me to the specific bit with a specific company's Articles that you are referring to? I note that the Model Articles don't even include the word "exchange". I reserve judgement until I see what exactly you are referring to, but would point out that a term allowing the company to handle Bills of Exchange is nowhere near the same as saying it compels the company to accept them as payment in all cases. Or you could take up my challenge, try to pay for your groceries in Tesco with a Bill of Exchange, then when that's not accepted try walking with the groceries out without further payment.

FF my company was incorporated before 2010 so had different article documents to what is on the gov't site now. After my Co got dissolved I destroyed all my paperwork because I didn't want to keep it. If I still had it, I would scan it & show you. There was a section of what to trade & except, it seemed to my memory it was every conceiveable 'IOU' you could think of.

flyingfish wrote:I've already pointed out the misunderstanding about sections 43 and 43 of the BoE Act.

please remind me

by flyingfish Sun Oct 16, 2022 8:35 am

LionsShare wrote:FF my company was incorporated before 2010 so had different article documents to what is on the gov't site now. After my Co got dissolved I destroyed all my paperwork because I didn't want to keep it. If I still had it, I would scan it & show you. There was a section of what to trade & except, it seemed to my memory it was every conceiveable 'IOU' you could think of.

The relevant documents will be those of the specific companies where you are advising people to raise these arguments. Just looking at one supplier (British Gas 03078711) their Memorandum of Association authorises them "To draw, make, accept, endorse, negotiate, discount and execute promissory notes, bills of exchange and other negotiable instruments". Authorising is not the same as compelling them to accept these as payment in all contracts. Another company, Octopus does not contain those terms in any case.

As stated many times suppliers are free to accept or not accept any form of payment that they choose, that is part of their offer and if accepted becomes part of the contract been supplier and customer. And if for example a shop does not accept cheques that does not give you the right to take goods free of charge.

I should also point out that although these Bills of Exchange arguments get a lot of air time, no actual successes have been seen. Indeed we've seen a few cases where the judgement has in passing pointed out that they had no relevance.

by flyingfish Sun Oct 16, 2022 8:45 am

LionsShare wrote:
flyingfish wrote:I've already pointed out the misunderstanding about sections 43 and 43 of the BoE Act.
please remind me

It was earlier in this thread, but no problem to repeat. Sections 42 and 43 refer to processing the Bill of Exchange further down the line, after both parties have agreed that this is an acceptable means of payment. They do not place any obligation on a party to have accepted the BoE in the first place. They refer to the process by which the creditor finally receives his payment through the BoE, and the recourse that he has against the debtor if the BoE proves defective.

As stated, you can take an analogy from payment by cheque. If the seller doesn't accept cheques that's the end of the matter, you can either pay by another method or deal elsewhere. If he does take cheques and your cheque subsequently bounces or is refuse then he can come after you for the value. The debt was not settled by writing and handing over the cheque, but only when the cheque is actually honoured (clears).

by **LionsShare** Sun Oct 16, 2022 3:35 pm

cheers FF will take on board what you have stated & research further.

As far as I am concerned as util Co's are sending a 'method' to discharge thier alleged 'bill', then they can have it back to discharge, they imply they will accept by them being my Trustee.

by **LionsShare** Sun Oct 16, 2022 3:35 pm

flyingfish wrote: Indeed we've seen a few cases where the judgement has in passing pointed out that they had no relevance.

It would be interesting to see that

by eugene28 Tue Jun 20, 2023 9:43 pm

Hi. When you endorse giro can you use £1 stamps instead? Why is it necessory to use 3 stamps instead of 1? And the last question where do you send it to? CEO or finance team?

by **LionsShare** Tue Jun 20, 2023 11:09 pm

eugene28 wrote:Hi. When you endorse giro can you use £1 stamps instead? Why is it necessory to use 3 stamps instead of 1? And the last question where do you send it to? CEO or finance team?

I've actually stopped using stamps to save cash. ATM all & I mean all gets ignored, they carry on regardless.

Stamps are if you like putting your own 'value' (creation) into the document. The denomination I get the impression don't matter because I can't find anything regarding 'face value' of what to use, so use 1p stamps if you want.

Send it to CEO yes, but a warning from someone who has done more than have a 'go', they ignore everything period, it does work through lack of evidence it does not but & a big BUT, you will come unstuck so don't do it as coppers are now blatantly breaking sect26 of (I think) criminal evidence & courts act 2015, THEY don't give a fu**ck, railroad all & all get stuffed.

Some do get through by being ignored & rest, the vast magority get well.... you know, pensioners, the vulnerable etc never mind the poor, all are penalised for being poor, its disgusting & its time it stopped

The only true way to get this stopped IMO is to express the pubilc trust. That will take research which I am now doing, probate may be the answer?

by eugene28 Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:44 pm

LionsShare wrote:
eugene28 wrote:Hi. When you endorse giro can you use £1 stamps instead? Why is it necessory to use 3 stamps instead of 1? And the last question where do you send it to? CEO or finance team?
I've actually stopped using stamps to save cash. ATM all & I mean all gets ignored, they carry on regardless.

Stamps are if you like putting your own 'value' (creation) into the document. The denomination I get the impression don't matter because I can't find anything regarding 'face value' of what to use, so use 1p stamps if you want.

Send it to CEO yes, but a warning from someone who has done more than have a 'go', they ignore everything period, it does work through lack of evidence it does not but & a big BUT, you will come unstuck so don't do it as coppers are now blatantly breaking sect26 of (I think) criminal evidence & courts act 2015, THEY don't give a fu**ck, railroad all & all get stuffed.

Some do get through by being ignored & rest, the vast magority get well.... you know, pensioners, the vulnerable etc never mind the poor, all are penalised for being poor, its disgusting & its time it stopped

The only true way to get this stopped IMO is to express the pubilc trust. That will take research which I am now doing, probate may be the answer?

Thank you for your reply LS. I am not planning to pay for gas or electric by endorsement. I simply do not have a giro slip option. You not gonna get railroaded for water payment with bill of exchange, would you?
Is anything else need to be included with a BOE, like cover letter? Do you need to fill in empty £ box on a cheque, where total sum meant to be?

by **LionsShare** Wed Jun 21, 2023 6:09 pm

eugene28 wrote:
LionsShare wrote:
eugene28 wrote:Hi. When you endorse giro can you use £1 stamps instead? Why is it necessory to use 3 stamps instead of 1? And the last question where do you send it to? CEO or finance team?
I've actually stopped using stamps to save cash. ATM all & I mean all gets ignored, they carry on regardless.

Stamps are if you like putting your own 'value' (creation) into the document. The denomination I get the impression don't matter because I can't find anything regarding 'face value' of what to use, so use 1p stamps if you want.

Send it to CEO yes, but a warning from someone who has done more than have a 'go', they ignore everything period, it does work through lack of evidence it does not but & a big BUT, you will come unstuck so don't do it as coppers are now blatantly breaking sect26 of (I think) criminal evidence & courts act 2015, THEY don't give a fu**ck, railroad all & all get stuffed.

Some do get through by being ignored & rest, the vast magority get well.... you know, pensioners, the vulnerable etc never mind the poor, all are penalised for being poor, its disgusting & its time it stopped

The only true way to get this stopped IMO is to express the pubilc trust. That will take research which I am now doing, probate may be the answer?
Thank you for your reply LS. I am not planning to pay for gas or electric by endorsement. I simply do not have a giro slip option. You not gonna get railroaded for water payment with bill of exchange, would you?
Is anything else need to be included with a BOE, like cover letter? Do you need to fill in empty £ box on a cheque, where total sum meant to be?

Do NOT touch the front of that pay slip in any way

No slip then use A4V:
https://goodf.forumotion.com/t6055-more-on-tear-off-slips-trusts?highlight=more+on+tear

for a cover letter look in the utils section & look for 'down memory lane' there should be somat in there.

regarding water, if you a4v or endorse or whatever then they will try (not can; sorry for misleading) go for a charge on your property if your name is on land title, if you private rent no need to worry, council rent either (I think).

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