Re: Bank Giro Credit

by OWtothelight Sat Jul 02, 2022 1:36 pm

LionsShare

I took heed of all the information you shared and came to the conclusion that it is a cheque raised to honour the requirement that all corporations must provide a remedy due to there being no debt.
As it is a cheque every name on the cheque is a payee, every item in boxes is not part of the document. Below the line, I can only assume that, as in maths and accounting, is the sum total which seems to include a cheque number, invoice number , sort code of the payee and part of my NI number. They state amount due in the box, due to who? I think me which is to be endorsed and then sent back to them to discharge the debt.

This is what I wrote on the top part of the bill:

I, O-W: Tothelight, of An address, accept for value the enclosed bill of exchange. I have endorsed it with my autograph and return it to you for the discharge of my debt of £19.00, for the fees of month and year, leaving an overpayment of £3.60, to be returned to me by Vodafonefor which payment by cheque will be acceptable. If you do not accept this method of payment, please return this bill to me by (one week). By: O-W: Tothelight, all rights reserved underneath the autograph and date.

3 stamps front of document signed and dated, not in BGC, one on back, I usually put a thumb print but forgot. I signed and dated the BGC where it asks for these, the signed and dated and printed my name on the back, I forgot to put a not transferable slip.

I wrote it all in purple, forgot to mention I am living, not sure if it is necessary in this document, but a red thumb print may be useful.??
I addressed it to the accounts manger as mentioned in one of the videos.

I thought it was worth trying this way as I stated if. It acceptable to return it, so not trying to defraud them and letting them know this. Plus it highlights the rule of BOE and rejecting as discharging debt.

Haven't had anything returned.

by OWtothelight Sat Jul 02, 2022 2:57 pm

This is a new Cc account, it does not have an amount in the box, but both amounts are printed on the cheque, although without a £ sign.

Amount due with an asterisk above an empty closed box, along with standard fee payable at po counter. What fee are they talking of? Cheque acceptable in all caps and outside of box - does this indicate that they are seeming this cheque acceptable by them?

All items outside of box are my name and address the banks involved, sort code, amounts of bill, and space to write an amount, signature and date and the above statements I quoted. As amount due is not in a box and on the cheque itself does that indicate the amount stated below is due to me for discharge of debt.

On this style of BGC, where there are two amounts as an option to pay, do we write the amount we wish to pay in the open box? Or leave that box blank as the amount is stated on the cheque and indicate in our cover letter which amount we are discharging?

When applied for this card because you don’t get an option to not have a title, and because it was there and for a change Smile

I opted for Lady instead of Ms. the numbers on the bottom of the cheque are now not part of my NI number. I can’t remember if it was requested on application.

by OWtothelight Sat Jul 02, 2022 3:27 pm

On other BGC the number before X is the same on each and corresponds to my NI number.

by **LionsShare** Sat Jul 02, 2022 6:35 pm

well done for getting what you have! Very Happy

the wording you have state you have used is different to what I use. However the fact you have stated what you have should be enough to 'sort' it. Remember THEY will not send it back & probably still cliam its still 'outstanding' (meaning its accepted), if they do that then come back & will endevour to help further.

OK if it looks like your NINO then it may be correct this time round - remember I don't have full disclosure on the process.

Regarding your forgotten Non-Transferable slip - simply write 'Non-Transferable' somewhere around the main text & that is done. This IS important!

On the slip where it states 'Credit Acc No', you have put 'sort code' - no that is incorrect, the sort code - 6 digits - is below this, this number is 7 digits, they may relate or be the same but again don't have full disclosure. The structure of this on mine bears NO relation to my NINO.

Everything looks good to go for you. As you have signed & dated it may help? it may not? I have tried this with water & for me it did nowt they carried on.......

If you have more questions to ask please do.

LS

by **LionsShare** Sat Jul 02, 2022 6:37 pm

OWtothelight wrote:On other BGC the number before X is the same on each and corresponds to my NI number.

Again, I don't have full disclosure, I think its coinsidence. On any of my gas, water, + leccy I have different numbers for each & NONE relate to my NINO.

by OWtothelight Sat Jul 02, 2022 7:08 pm

LionsShare wrote:
OWtothelight wrote:On other BGC the number before X is the same on each and corresponds to my NI number.
Again, I don't have full disclosure, I think its coinsidence. On any of my gas, water, + leccy I have different numbers for each & NONE relate to my NINO.

Two of my unrelated bills have the same numbers. Only the one where I used a different title has a different number. Whatever the connection there is one if two companies are using the same reference.

by **LionsShare** Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:14 pm

please watch, from ceylon, about how the Jews & the monetary system is enslaving us, those bits of paper are worthless & non redeemable:
https://odysee.com/@ceylon:1/...what-is-humic---fulvic-acid:4?r=GppJhcTh7gcV351GwwhngizkhvrBcstV&t=420

by **LionsShare** Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:24 pm

Joint Giros some might think are an equitable asset, but remember when in a Trust the equitable asset is the res in the Trust, so when these giros are endorsed & sent back, the Trustee in the public must discharge (because 'money' is public & not private) & uses the balance attached to the debt title (certified entry in reg' of births - Mr. Mrs.etc 1st name SURNAME) and balances the ledger - 'A4V-ing', that's the endorsing hand written text.

I hope this helps more, anyone researching joint giros.

by OWtothelight Wed Jul 06, 2022 8:34 am

LionsShare

So the most important part is the letter you return staying who you are and that you accept the enclosed bill of exchange for value endorse it and return it to them for discharge of the debt?

by **LionsShare** Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:34 pm

OWtothelight wrote:LionsShare

So the most important part is the letter you return staying who you are and that you accept the enclosed bill of exchange for value endorse it and return it to them for discharge of the debt?

Yes the tearoff slip is the 'money' part sort of, its the instruction (cheque) to the Drawee (corporate bank) to then discharge to the Payee (util Co).

You are simply the Holder in Due Course. Have a look at the 1st post in this thread.
https://goodf.forumotion.com/t5119-deciding-what-to-do

by **LionsShare** Fri Jul 08, 2022 8:21 pm

LionsShare wrote:Trust has 3 entities, Settlor the 1 who places ? into Trust, Trustee - the 1 who is responsible for running & liable for Trust out goings, Benificary - 1 who receives ? from the Trust.

Agreements & Trusts:

Settlor the 1 who signs for the agreement thus creating the Trust & places into Trust the opportunity for Util Co to exclusivly profit (meaning no other Util Co is suppose to 'butt' in).

Trustee the Util Co, must settle liabilities of the Trust (here the out going liability is simply the cashing of the tearoff slip to get dsicharge (paid) if they don't bother, try & fail, don't know how, is thier liability), & are not entitled to receive anything from Settlor or Benificiary.

Benificary - you; receive the ability to wash, heat, light, cook etc

the joint giro or giro with added value (non transcash logo but with all the correct bits) is there for you to sign, date, & return that's it, that should be the end but it ain't...... onwards & upwards

Please listen very carefully, the util Co are the TRUTSEE:
https://youtu.be/NT2hYiAs2tg?t=496

watch the whole vid worth a look!

by Sharpysparky Wed Jul 13, 2022 7:00 pm

Just seen this on Telegram, dont know what dates but if this is legit maybe just wow?

by **LionsShare** Thu Jul 14, 2022 1:39 pm

there was some info on this web site sometime back where there the evidence stated a mortgage for around £1miilion was attempted to be discharged via prom note, but as was adequatly demonstrated the court dismissed the prom note possibly as fiction & the mortgage debtors had thier house seized & they lost big time.

If you want to try to find what I have stated here you are welocme to try but the author of the site moves around/deletes stuff so it may not be there, I have tried & cannot find. Good luck

https://www.expertinalllegalmatters.com/

by **LionsShare** Thu Jul 14, 2022 2:10 pm

LionsShare wrote:Agreements & Trusts:

remember why you are given the joint giro, can you reach an agreement with a corporation - dead legal fiction? If you are shown the creation of a corporation it will be the certificate of birth for that corporation, the certificate of incorporation, try & talk to that piece of paper & get a reaction. Of course you can't.

Only man can only contract/agree with another man, a corporation can only contract/agree with another corporation by re-presentation.

The 'hassle' of trying to administer your situation is placed into to Trust by the written agreement, the 'hassle' you nor I should be getting but are over these joint giros should be dealt with by simply signing, dating, & returning - job done? But these greedy fookers want more profit on the public side.

Sending the joint giro back with a prom note creates a surplus on the private side & should generate for you a refund? But will you get 1 from those greedy..... No of course not. Where does that surplus go? Don't have that info unfortunatly, yes 1 can speculate but without coorect info then.......

As far as I see 1 of the 'agreed' conditions of the b'cert is to play the part & agree to discharge properly in this 'world of commerce', but we are not told that, the system that's suppose to work for us has been stolen & is manipulated thus to enslave us all. But now some of are working things out & fighting back!

The main reason for the private side refund is because WE are the CREDITORS, WE are the backing for this ink on paper 'system' we are in/under. If anyone has seen the vid by 'lawfuldebts & Rebellion' on YT but now has taken his channel down - again, there was ample evidence in 1 vid of when, ? sent a prom note along with the tear off slip to Littlewoods a cheque came back for ? to cash.

Why is there a surplus on the private side? This is a bit of a grey area. On 1 hand we are using the PUBLIC currency of the GBP - '£' but on the other using a home made prom note created by us in private that no one else knows about until delivered to the util Co/or wherever. Using a home self made prom note we are the creators not the Bank of England, we in this case are not using PUBLIC bank notes, no one else (I imagine) gets to use our home made notes but 'banking circles' will.

by flyingfish Thu Jul 14, 2022 3:19 pm

LionsShare wrote:there was some info on this web site sometime back where there the evidence stated a mortgage for around £1miilion was attempted to be discharged via prom note, but as was adequatly demonstrated the court dismissed the prom note possibly as fiction & the mortgage debtors had thier house seized & they lost big time.

It's been tried a few time, but never works as far as I'm aware, here was one example although that was £3m. See para 35
https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Ch/2014/2117.html

by **LionsShare** Thu Jul 14, 2022 5:32 pm

cheers FF much appreciated.

in section35 it does state a prom note was handed over.

sect37.... 'All it needs to do is to satisfy the Court that the trustees had borrowed the money and not repaid it. As the judge said the very fact that the trustees tendered a promissory note for £3 million is, at the very least, strong evidence that there was a substantial indebtedness outstanding.' - Goes to show all these banks have to do is satisfy the court 'money' was borrowed & was not paid back. But also a strong indication a debt was owed was the fact a prom note was handed over.

Then surly that should have been enough to set aside (cancel) whatever, no there's more to be gotten - IMO nothing other than theft.

All can debate this 'till the cows come home.

by Sharpysparky Thu Jul 14, 2022 10:24 pm

Its all a set up and they (banks and courts) will never let it go as this would just simply open the flood gates and they know it! The only way any of this would be possible is if there was such a thing as a straight judge that knew what was being done was correct although it being done in the private, we are not allowed to trade like they are for obvious reasons, they can trade prom notes but we cant

Be lucky
SS

by flyingfish Fri Jul 15, 2022 9:33 am

LionsShare wrote:sect37.... 'All it needs to do is to satisfy the Court that the trustees had borrowed the money and not repaid it. As the judge said the very fact that the trustees tendered a promissory note for £3 million is, at the very least, strong evidence that there was a substantial indebtedness outstanding.' - Goes to show all these banks have to do is satisfy the court 'money' was borrowed & was not paid back. But also a strong indication a debt was owed was the fact a prom note was handed over.

Then surly that should have been enough to set aside (cancel) whatever, no there's more to be gotten - IMO nothing other than theft.

To see it from the establishment's point of view we have to step back a wee bit and consider from first principles. Let's assume it accepted that the debt originally existed, just for this example.

We know from previous discussions and documents people have linked to that pretty much the only form of legal tender is Bank of England bank notes. We also know that the meaning of legal tender is that if payment in that form is offered they pretty much have to accept it, and can't sue for non-payment.

We also know from everyday experience the deals are done every day using other forms of payment, and this is because although they must accept legal tender they are free to accept or not accept any other form of payment at their choice.

So if you offer a Promissory Note the consideration would (1) is it legal tender, and the answer is "No", moving on .. (2) is the creditor happy to accept that form of payment. If the second answer is Yes you still need to look into the formalities, is acceptance of he PN actually payment, or only once it's honoured? (For an if someone accepts payment by cheque and the cheque fails for any reason at all then the debt isn't paid)

by **LionsShare** Fri Jul 15, 2022 10:33 am

flyingfish wrote:We know from previous discussions and documents people have linked to that pretty much the only form of legal tender is Bank of England bank notes. We also know that the meaning of legal tender is that if payment in that form is offered they pretty much have to accept it, and can't sue for non-payment.

Correct

flyingfish wrote:We also know from everyday experience the deals are done every day using other forms of payment, and this is because although they must accept legal tender they are free to accept or not accept any other form of payment at their choice.

OK when it comes of other forms of payment the banks (I'm only going on about banks because of the post by SS was about banks & mortgages) I think may well have to accept anything that can be securitised because it can be put through Bank of England for them to get paid?

flyingfish wrote:So if you offer a Promissory Note the consideration would (1) is it legal tender, and the answer is "No", moving on .. (2) is the creditor happy to accept that form of payment. If the second answer is Yes you still need to look into the formalities, is acceptance of he PN actually payment, or only once it's honoured? (For an if someone accepts payment by cheque and the cheque fails for any reason at all then the debt isn't paid)

Not too sure about it not being 'legal tender' the case of Lord Denning Promissory Notes are cash! There are case law precedents such as Lord Denning whereby the Judge stated that 'a Promissory Note or Bill of Exchange is equivalent to cash and is to be regarded as such, and is regarded as cash. Can't remember case specifics

excellent article on prom notes
http://steven-kirk.com/using-a-promissory-note/

Lord Denning Promissory Notes Are To Be Treated As Cash But The Banks Break Their Own Laws
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9CoXxjeMEA

watch the 1st min - some interesting narrative?
Promissory Notes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjjJdJtWHhU

by flyingfish Fri Jul 15, 2022 4:35 pm

LionsShare wrote:Not too sure about it not being 'legal tender' the case of Lord Denning Promissory Notes are cash! There are case law precedents such as Lord Denning whereby the Judge stated that 'a Promissory Note or Bill of Exchange is equivalent to cash and is to be regarded as such, and is regarded as cash. Can't remember case specifics

You are probably referring to Fielding & Platt Ltd v Najjar 1969. Even without reading the whole case (recommended though) looking just at the sentence before and after the famous line you can see why it doesn't mean what is often assumed ..

Stopping there, it is quite plain to me that the defendant was liable to pay the first of the promissory notes. We have repeatedly said in this court that a bill of exchange or a promissory note is to be treated as cash. It is to be honoured unless there is some good reason to the contrary.

In brief the "honoured" referred to the obligation of the person issuing the note to honour it by paying the sum promised. It does not refer to any obligation to accept the PN in the first place.

by flyingfish Fri Jul 15, 2022 4:38 pm

Also have a quick look at this, starting from the bottom of page 3
https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/decision/DRN8341979.pdf

by **LionsShare** Fri Jul 15, 2022 6:42 pm

FF OK take your point & yes I was referring to the case you stated but....

bear in mind I'm not legally trained, from P3 on - 'But the actual meaning of what Lord Denning said is the total opposite of this. Lord Denning
said that if a debtor gives a bill of exchange or a promissory note to a creditor, it is binding on the debtor and must be honoured (paid) by the debtor, unless there is a good reason to the contrary.'

If a PN is accepted then there may well be a 'debt' still owed, I can't get over or past the idea that there is still a debt to be paid because have the bank of england ever full filled thier promise to 'pay' on any of thier notes? I can't find awt anywhere they have done so, as its to me just about passing around bits of inked paper as 'commerce' then in accounting terms due to a PN being used if accepted then the 'creditor' can 'balance the books' (not a trained accountant either)?

As all we have are debt notes how do you me or anyone pay for anything in a debt driven economy? & with what would 1 pay?

Privatley I've NEVER tried to discharged debt with a home made PN but publically yes - utilities, I put in my own T&C's, the due collection date passed with no doors knockers a knockin', for me as part of my T&C's any obligation to give further discharge was terminated.

So far I've had NO come back & NO paperwork returned either Very Happy

- but that can always change.

by **LionsShare** Fri Jul 15, 2022 6:54 pm

there is currently anecdotal evidence on telegram of people actually successfully purchasing brand new cars with home made prom notes. How do they do that?

Well.......

Actually they ask the 'head honcho' at a dealership would you accept my home made prom note for that car? If they say yes done deal apparently.

Always remember you actually never buy anything only ever purchase, people use the 2 words to mean the same but they are far from that. To buy would be generally use for small stuff like news paper, fags, sweets etc. Purchase is generally thought of in contractual terms eg for a house or car, or anything large in price (which is arbitary) but actually we only ever purchase.

I've explained the difference in other posts the meaning of 'value' & cash price.

by Sharpysparky Fri Jul 15, 2022 10:05 pm

Its a minefield guys and tbh we will never know the answers, FF i get all you say, just hear me out here, so THEY can choose how, what, when, THEY want payment so on THEIR terms end of, simple, tough s**t, so i dont want to pay monthly tough s**t, i dont want to contract with them, guess what tough s**t, i dont want to be made their bitch, guess what? Tough s**t so they can say jump but if want it our way we have to spend months/years of our lives researching, sending numerous letters/notices and in most cases, guess what? Yup you got it tough s**t!

Be lucky
SS

by **LionsShare** Fri Jul 15, 2022 10:33 pm

SS evening,

sound like you have alot of sh*it to send to these people? Smile

by Sponsored content