Siemens Company claims £30k+ in out of court damages - URGENT ADVICE NEEDED

A friend of mine who has been using a a cracked/pirated copy of Solid Edge® (3D CAD solution) in his company has received an email, no calls though.

We are unsure what info they have
we don't know how they got the email address or the correct Computer Name, Company Name
its NOT a scam
Nothing in writing
very small time to react - less than a week

ITS a huge amount of money and we would love some pointers, I thought trying to get them to bill him 3 letters and estoppel prior to and action and then any action is not possible as its in estoppel but they have a name and company !! Help as he thinks he should settle as he has heard that many companies get hit in court big time.

I have added Xs to ensure this is not linked to any future court cases

Dear XXXX

Your action is urgently required.

I have tried to contact you via phone but thus far I have been unsuccessful.

Siemens has been made aware that within your company by one of your employees and one of your companies PC’s a cracked/pirated copy of Solid Edge® (3D CAD solution)
has been illegally downloaded, installed, activated and is being used within your companies network, during normal working hours.

The computer is named “XXXXX-XXXXXXX”, which suggests this may belong to you and your company.

This cracked copy was produced by SolidSQUAD and contains full Solid Edge functionality plus all add-on modules that have ever been developed by Siemens. The retail value of this is £3X,XXX.

Siemens are entitled to claim damages from you since you installed and used our software unlicensed/illegally, and this has been over a significant timeframe.

Our preference is to settle this in an amicable and non-public way, by allowing you to legalize/purchase the cracked copy.

Please can you confirm your acceptance of this by email by XXth XXXXXX at XX:00.
If not accepted, or not within the strict timeframe we allow for out-of-court settlements, I see no other way than to forward for legal procedures.

The settlement can only be entered with SIEMENS directly. Any purchase not directly with SIEMENS will not been seen as a settlement.

Regards
XXXXXXX


XXXXXXX
UK License Compliance

Siemens Industry Sector
Siemens Industry Software Limited
Stephenson House, Sir William Siemens Square,
Frimley, Camberley GU16 8QD, United Kingdom

Any way they can prove it ?

Proof of claim is always with the claimant.

Yes they can, from what they are saying they have the company, the computer name and users full name

Just a thought ,can they show it was not installed by what is obviously a disgruntled employee without your mates knowledge ?

Not really as they have records of use over last 6 months

Siemens will have over £2 million in assets, is it worth trying to use a prom note to pay if they are going after the employee - if they will cash a prom note then all should be OK.

As you have said claimant has evidence to back up.

Look on ytube a prom notes & how people in the US are paying off all sorts of debts for large amounts - worth a look.

Yeah I thought that too but it seems my friend is too scared and they don't want money they have a supplier to invoice for a licence and once the sale is done they will drop the issue. Threat come through that if they don't or can't pay they will close them down he's shat himself now.

what about prom note to the supplier?

They will not supply anything to an individual or without payment up front

Sorry but not tech minded.
Maybe someone here can answer , is it possible they can trace / locate & name your computer ,how long it has been used ,in fact all of the allegations they are making ,without gaining these details from an employee ?

How can they prove that to the best of your friends knowledge they were not purchasing a legit (used, I don't know maybe at a car-boot or such) version?.

How can they prove that this so called cracked copy is performing correctly and the information being sent is valid?, are they seeding these cracked copies with the intention of entrapment?.

Not sure on the privacy aspect also, they are saying that they know it has been used for 6 months, how?, real-time monitoring?, wouldn't that have implications on the privacy of your friends clients as well as your friends companies own intellectual property?.

Lots of people make lots of claims about the integrity of computer generated information but the simple fact of the matter is anything can be modified.

Not sure of the legality of asking for money from you prior to court action either, your friend can make an offer of settlement but if memory recalls and they do it that starts going down the path of some form of blackmail, undue pressure etc etc, I cant remember the exact terminology for it but will update if I it comes back to me, undue influence/under duress seems to be ringing bells.

Also if the letter from them does not state 'without prejudice' then it can be used as evidence in court.

Without having access to the actual unit that they claim to have received evidence of usage from then it is difficult to say what information they actually do have and what it proves or what it could prove in a court of law.

I would personally consider (based upon the answers to the above) treating it as a cease and desist notice e.g. stop using our software as it is not a licenced copy and would respond accordingly e.g,

Dear blah,

Thank you for bringing this matter to the attention of (company name).

(company name) relies on using legitimate licensed software and your claim has come as a surprise to (company name).

Our IT department has isolated the machine that you have highlighted and your claim will be fully investigated in accordance with our internal company procedures.

Kind Regards

(company name)




Not sure if it answers your question but hopefully gives some ideas.

daveiron wrote:Sorry but not tech minded.
Maybe someone here can answer , is it possible they can trace / locate & name your computer ,how long it has been used ,in fact all of the allegations they are making ,without gaining these details from an employee ?

Yes, it's the "call home" function. It's used to check for updates and patches. It will contact the provider and inform them it's coming from an unregistered server,identify the computer its being used on and record its usage. If you want to use someone else's software for your own profit it'sprobably best to pay for it. Running a business on pirated software is a risky affair, you can get your fingers badly burned.

If your friend has any friends who are tech handy get them to put the unit on an isolated network e.g. not connected to the internet, then use a packet sniffer to capture/read the data being transmitted when the software is started.

I wouldn't be surprised if it is just a very small set of data values that they are conflating to appear as facts.

actinglikeabanker wrote:

Without having access to the actual unit that they claim to have received evidence of usage from then it is difficult to say what information they actually do have and what it proves or what it could prove in a court of law.

They do have access, remote access. It's built into the software. Internet computing is a 2-way street. If you are accessing software and data from them, they can do the same to you.

StrangerInAStrangeLand does make a good point thought of trying to operate a business on 'known' cracked software it is just not worth the headache in the end.

StrangerInAStrangeLand wrote:

actinglikeabanker wrote:

Without having access to the actual unit that they claim to have received evidence of usage from then it is difficult to say what information they actually do have and what it proves or what it could prove in a court of law.

They do have access, remote access.  It's built into the software. Internet computing is a 2-way street. If you are accessing software and data from them, they can do the same to you.

I was referring to me not having access to the machine, I could have been clearer.

actinglikeabanker wrote:StrangerInAStrangeLand does make a good point thought of trying to operate a business on 'known' cracked software it is just not worth the headache in the end.

Plus these are huge corportions with legal teams dedicated to this kind of thing. If it gets to court, they'll bring in the big guns. They don't want their reputation for security tarnished, they'll pay to protect it.

All these software packages will use license specific components or actual separate license software, the component or license package will "communicate" with the actual main package to inform license is "OK"/not.

The license software will have a network component in it & communicate with a central server. As comms is a 2way street windows own "system metrics" can be used to obtain user, passsword, screen size, keyboard language etc which all gets passed back. In coming Ip address to central server will be used to obtain company name.

Hi salamanda

There are no easy solutions but by the sounds of it he can get the 30k if push came to shove.

A prom note might work however it's not the only option. Other than what has already been presented i see three options:

a) Pay up

b) Hire representation - and then pay up

c) Engage in commerce....

Unfortunately he has the same choice the rest of us have when it comes to dealing with the system - either lube-up or grow a pair. Option c) is the only one that offers hope of 'redemption' imo. If interested i can tell you more.

Good luck!

Cheers!

He is going for a) against my advice

iamani wrote:Hi salamanda

There are no easy solutions but by the sounds of it he can get the 30k if push came to shove.

A prom note might work however it's not the only option. Other than what has already been presented i see three options:

a) Pay up

b) Hire representation - and then pay up

c) Engage in commerce....

Unfortunately he has the same choice the rest of us have when it comes to dealing with the system  -  either lube-up or grow a pair. Option c) is the only one that offers hope of 'redemption' imo. If interested i can tell you more.

Good luck!

Cheers!

Could he perhaps make an offer before paying in full,

Based on something like this,

I have carried out an investigation & it would appear that this software has been installed on one of my machines without my authorisation or knowledge and has now been removed .However as it would appear that some use has been made of this software I would be prepared to make an offer in full and final settlement of £ xxx

I seem to recall from somewhere that no offence has been committed if there was no intent to commit it.

At least make an offer instead of paying in full.

they don't care all attempts to negotiate have been declined and backed up with the threat that if you can pay we will take it to court and take assets. They just don't care, with the attitude that its their software and it was stolen.

no recourse, no choice

think the issue is closed now. but I will update once its bought and deal done, just to wrap it up and in case anyone else out there looks.

So, Salamanda, your friend is or wants to pay up, when all he has received so far is a threat via an EMAIL!? It strikes me that if this was from Siemens themselves, they would surely send your friend a demand for payment via a full company letterhead, but certainly not an email. If some company said that they were spying on me or a member of my family, then I'd tell them to go chase themselves and report the matter to the policymen. This is blackmail and not necessarily from any company member, but perhaps from someone who is trying to pull off a little con job of their own.

salamanda wrote:He is going for a) against my advice

iamani wrote:Hi salamanda

There are no easy solutions but by the sounds of it he can get the 30k if push came to shove.

A prom note might work however it's not the only option. Other than what has already been presented i see three options:

a) Pay up

b) Hire representation - and then pay up

c) Engage in commerce....

Unfortunately he has the same choice the rest of us have when it comes to dealing with the system  -  either lube-up or grow a pair. Option c) is the only one that offers hope of 'redemption' imo. If interested i can tell you more.

Good luck!

Cheers!

What's the company name and email address, I could do with 30 grand.
This is all happening because a disgruntled employee has grassed him up for using this software, all they will know is what the employee has told them. They haven't sent you a letter because I would bet is because they have no clue what your address is. The most they could get from an ip address is the name of the internet service provider and they can't reveal who you are without a Court order.