Important Update For Everyone

Do you live in the Nottinghamshire, Derbyshire, or South Yorkshire area, or do you travel through them regularly, if so then read on.

It came to my attention that these police forces are making illegal stops on motorists to obtain their personal information, and while many of us have known this for some time we have managed to collect sufficient information to prove this to be true, and a thank you to the 35 people who helped with this.

In all cases the police stop a car and they do this for spurious reasons, now lets be objective here, the police can stop a car for any reason, but there has to be a genuine reason for the stop, information gathering is NOT ONE OF THEM, but they are doing it without any genuine reason. In all cases we have undertaken they have stopped people for information gathering purposes, i.e. gathering personal data.

In EVERY case a vehicle was followed for a period of time i.e. until it entered a quiet area before the police stopped it, or in real terms, where there were no witnesses and the police didn't have vidio footage from a marked police vehicle, and none of them had their body cameras switched on, even though they were wearing them. In all cases there were two constables in uniform and this is so it comes to their word against yours and we all know that despite evidence to the contrary, they always take their word.

In every case the driver worked to a script, and this began with a simple question "what is the reason for the stop" and in every case it was an excuse and not a justifiable reason for the stop, and the law is very specific here, they must have a genuine reason for the stop and comments such as "we are checking vehicles in this area" isn't reasonable suspicion its just data harvesting. In some cases they claimed they were checking documents, really? as they have access to a PNC system which gives them information regarding the vehicle's Tax, Insurance, and MOT status, so if you are taxed, insured, and MOT'd they can only be checking a driving license, so what suspicions do they have that you don't have a driving license?

In most of the cases they have their collar numbers covered with Hi-Viz jackets and when you ask for their warrant card they are refusing to show it, WHY? they often claim "if you have nothing to hide" so what have they got to hide? they are the public servant and are duty bound under their own regulations to provide you with THEIR warrant card upon request.

In many cases they make spurious claims and these have included "it was your manner of driving" or other vague claims such as "we thought you were someone else" and as we can see it is both vague and spurious and very non specific, so make them specific. Ask them what your manner of driving was and why they thought you were breaking the law, and specifically what law they are claiming they thought you have ALLEGEDLY BROKEN (Its always allegedly) and be very specific and make them specific. In many cases they may claim "we thought we saw you...... and again this is spurious, they either see you do something or they dont, one cannot speak for another, so ask them both individually and see if they both come up with the same answer, and they can both tell you what they claim to have seen.

If they claim its a document check then ask them outright why they are stopping you and if they have run a PNC check on your vehicle, if they admit they have then they know your vehicle is fully legal and if they claim tax, MOT or insurance then you know they are lying and it is a fraudulent stop.

In many cases they play the spurious card again, they may claim that its suspicious that you are out at that time of day/night, or that the route you have taken is suspicious? WHY, what is suspicious about a fully legal car being driven on a public road, NOTHING, so what crime do they think you have committed, or are involved in committing, or have committed is the next question you should ask and I have heard this one many times, they have to give a valid reason so keep them to valid and not spurious.

In all cases you record the event, use a mobile telephone with video if you want to be blatent, but beware that corrupt constables will always try to stop this and threaten to sieze your phone as evidence and you know they will and delete the evidence, or, if you have audio record on your phone then switch it on and audio record it as this is sufficient evidence alone.

I took this up in the past a few years ago and I couldn't find anything that said they needed anything more than ANY REASON. No where could I find anything that said a genuine reason or reasonable suspicion or a justifiable reason. I even got banned from posting on a Police forum for asking these type of questions which I think they found difficult to answer. https://police.community/topic/79554-video-lambo-driver-tells-cops-his-shoes-worth-more-than-your-wages-during-stop/?tab=comments#comment-178388
That was the topic I was banned for and if I remember rightly I asked about the stopping you for no reason, but I couldn't find any evidence to back up my claims that they needed a good reason to stop someone.

Hi guys

Jinxer - did you try looking up a constable's powers to stop somebody if no complaint has been made, or crime witnessed?

Cheers!

Hollow officer, why have you stopped me - Deny but document the reason.

Politely deny all allegations and document later.

You: officer what is your reasonable suspicion that I've committed a crime?

What is your reasonable suspicion that I'm about to commit a crime?

What reasoanble suspicion do you have that my car has or is about to be used in the commission of a crime or has anything or any person in it that may constitute a serious offence (one that carries a 5 year prison sentence, or longer.)

Officer, without any reasoanble suspicion of criminal wrong doing on my part any further detention is unlawful detention and I will seek compensation for the injury. Am I free to go officer?

Officer: you can go

You: complete your police interaction form you have made up and carry with you for the purposes of creating contemporaneous notes which carry weight in court, just like the cops complete their contemporaneous notes to use against you in court.

This form should note, the site details, time and date, the names of police, their station, their police number and space for notes of questions, answers and statements made by each party.

If you are not under arrest then you have the right to not to answer questions and if they arrest you you have the right to not self incriminate which you implement by remaining silent.

A recent wise comment by someone 'goals are full of people who could not keep their trap shut."

http://www.derbyshire.police.uk/Documents/About-Us/Freedom-of-Information/Policies/Stop,PowerstoStopPersonsandVehicles.pdf
I have just found this after searching using what iamani said.

As expected , the words Lawfully & Constable were only used a couple of times throughout the entire document.
Every thing else relates to Officers & Legally .

The first thing you should ascertain in any stop is in what capacity is plod acting.

I always remember something Guy Taylor once said. " The instant a Constable stops acting lawfully ,is the instant he stops being a Constable ,as its impossible for a Constable to break the law.

Hi all

Jinxer - thanks for posting that last link, it gives a really useful insight, jaw dropping in places - but not as jaw dropping as the arrogance and complacency of the members on that police forum. Again though, it provided a useful insight. You tell 'em, tiger!

Cheers!

Hi everyone,

After reading this thread it certainly makes sense! Personally not been stopped by cops in years but have gained from what is written here how to deal better with these plods, thanks now better informed!

Hi all

Ausk - enjoyed your scenario, and although i might do it slightly differently it's all good info except for one point i might ask you to note..... deny NOTHING - QUESTION everything! It's so much harder to self-incriminate with questions, in some ways it's even better than silence - and you never know, you might learn something useful from their responses, whereas denials can and will be used against you.

Cheers!

And where in any of the documents does it say they can stop people to obtain their personal details?

Hi assassin

Nope. But Jinxer's Derbyshire police link is very telling in that they are discussing the harvesting of personal info, so looks like they MUST be fibbing one way or another.

......and apols if we went too far off topic.

Cheers!

Hi iamani, it is all part of the topic as far as I am concerned, but its also telling that this is their "interpretation of the law" and how they want to try and apply it.